14: 85% Is Greater Than 100%

Rich:
Mike’s hi. Right button on

Maggie:
On

Rich:
Numbers taking up for you.

Maggie:
Okay,

Rich:
Check check. All right, cool. Hey, hi.

Maggie:
Good morning.

Rich:
How you doing today?

Maggie:
Good? Great now.

Rich:
I’m wearing shoes from like 20 2016 2015 2016 that era of my life. Yeah, because last night my mom called me. No, she texted me and no she either way. I got in touch with me. She was like my I’m locked out of my house. And as you might know it was thunderstorms and lightning and everything last night. Mmm. It was raining and I was like, oh sick. Well when I was a kid, I used to climb through the bathroom window. So no big deal and it really kind of wasn’t a big deal except it was pouring rain and like to get right up to the window. I had to go. Like directly under where the water was all coming off the roof. So even if I wasn’t gonna get soaking wet just because of the rain I definitely got soaking wet for just standing up just dripping roof on top of this garbage can which That’s not don’t nobody do that. Okay, don’t freaking

Maggie:
You. Just one son of the Year award.

Rich:
Oh, yeah. You’re

Maggie:
Better. Hope that Ollie does that for you and Christine

Rich:
True? It was it was fortunate. I tried the one window at first, but I didn’t want to break the screen and then I like went over to the window that I used to break in and then it was the screen was easy to pop out over there. Yeah in the past I had broken the screen. Was

Maggie:
That the house you grew up in?

Rich:
Yeah.

Maggie:
Yeah, so, you know all the tricks.

Rich:
Rights rights It’s a little more secure now than it was back then. But anyway, so my shoes were not dry this morning. That’s why I’m wearing these. But it’s okay.

Maggie:
They’re like Dad loafers.

Rich:
They are totally suit. Yeah was my 2015 2016 Vibe for sure. I was like kayaking a lot that summer 2016 and I would dig my boat shoes. And

Maggie:
Fancy boat shoes.

Rich:
Yeah. Thanks. LL Bean

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
You know shout out.

Maggie:
I was gonna say that kind of looked like the LL bean slippers, but they’re like shoe form.

Rich:
I have those two.

Maggie:
Yes same.

Rich:
Uh, yeah, what’s new to you? Breaking entering last night.

Maggie:
Hey,

Rich:
You’re drinking House Coffee a filtered conversations brewed out the intersection of real estate life and coffee shop service.

Maggie:
We’re Maggie and Rich local business owners and Friends sharing stories and welcoming you to pull up a chair with us the doors always open lettuce

Rich:
For you.

Maggie:
Breaking. No, not not last night. No last night. I was staging well, no, I was meeting with Joe and we were planning out. We just bought lots of furniture for this new project. I’m working

Rich:
On the big one.

Maggie:
The office the gabbular office and Glenville, so we just ended up like biting the bullet and buying what we needed and that was really fun.

Rich:
Cool.

Maggie:
But I was my brain was fried last night like having to make all those little decisions. Yeah,

Rich:
It’s only imagine

Maggie:
Kind of exhausting for me

Rich:
Shopping is always exhausting for me.

Maggie:
Yeah, so but it’s like not just the shopping. It’s like deciding where the things you are purchasing first deciding what you need.

Rich:
Yeah. And

Maggie:
Then once you decide what you need for the specific rooms in the areas, then you have to go through the World Wide Web of choices

Rich:
Of www

Maggie:
To pick what you want for those spaces and Decision paralysis is a thing. I will say it is at one point Joe and I were Joe is basically just like Maggie just pick something. Yeah buy it and let’s move on.

Rich:
Classic Joe.

Maggie:
Mm-hmm So thank God for him. He’s been such a like I don’t know he’s he’s like he’s like very we’re very young and yang and he’s he’s very good at like bouncing out my Brain, sometimes yeah. Yeah,

Rich:
You’re telling me some good stuff yesterday about I was helping you organize and yeah systematize. Yeah, I love that. I love

Maggie:
That. Tell you’re awesome. Thank you.

Rich:
Well super cool so today We’re talking just a little bit follow from last week. We

Maggie:
Welcome to episode 14

Rich:
14 all of us. You’re keeping count because I have no clue.

Maggie:
Yeah. Well, it’s exciting to me because every week that we record is like Wow, we made it another episode.

Rich:
Yeah,

Maggie:
And we’ve been pretty consistent and I just want to Pat ourselves on the back

Rich:
14 weeks of doing more or less the same thing. That’s actually pretty pretty solid. We had thought that we might like do some batch. Recording sessions and like record a few at a time, but I don’t think we’ve done that yet. We’ve never recorded more than one.

Maggie:
Yeah. No,

Rich:
We haven’t 14 weeks plus so yeah, we’re crushing it.

Maggie:
That is how dedicated we are to being unfiltered and real that’s right our audience. Because we want to give them real-time experiences of our life or within a week of it. You heard it here we record and then we release the following week.

Rich:
Yeah, yep.

Maggie:
That’s how our skin

Rich:
Sure do. Shout out to TJ.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
Making that happen. Put in the the late hours.

Maggie:
So last week we talked about the 25 hour work week.

Rich:
Yes. What

Maggie:
Which was a concept of? What

Rich:
Well like trying to get your workflow and and sort of life in such a way your work life in such a way that you can work less and do do more basically in less time and we didn’t even we had so many notes and stuff to go into that with and then like didn’t really get to explore too much about mmm where that thought comes from why it’s good how we’re not even built to be doing more than like six hours a day of productive activity. Yeah, and and there was a lot more that we could have got into but that’s okay because we were mostly we’re trying to exam these things from our personal standpoints. And

Maggie:
Yeah

Rich:
Anecdotally, I think we explored those on a personal side a little bit more which is Which great? today I thought We’re talking about. the

Maggie:
85% rule. Yeah. Yeah. So

Rich:
Going into last week. We had I found this article. That I sent you that I had read and now I have read again. So it’s fresh in my brain. And this is this is a cool. Okay, I like this article because speaking to how burnout culture kind of And where it comes from how it’s fed. And that was what we talked about two weeks ago, which is what led us to talking about. Well, what’s the what’s the alternative? What’s the difference? And so this is a little bit more of like how do we aim at some solutions for? Curing burnout or avoiding it or mitigating it. so

Maggie:
Yeah

Rich:
To Greg McEwen.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
I say his name

Maggie:
Actually, they’re great

Rich:
Author of essentialism, which is a book that I have not read, but I do have on the story bookshelf for sale.

Maggie:
So you can own your own copy.

Rich:
So true

Maggie:
Of what’s the book called

Rich:
Essentially

Maggie:
Essentialism. You just have to go to storied coffee and pick it up off the shelf and it’s gonna be yours.

Rich:
Yeah, I bet it’s only she read it. I think

Maggie:
Okay,

Rich:
And I might have another book by him and that’s maybe how it came up. But she saw that but either way this article the title the article

Maggie:
It was published in the Harvard Business review and it’s titled to build a top performing team. Ask for 85% effort.

Rich:
So counterintuitive.

Maggie:
I know.

Rich:
What about what about giving a hundred percent? What about giving 110% Maggie

Maggie:
A hundred and ten percent. That’s what we’re that’s a lie. We’ve been told

Rich:
No

Maggie:
To Give everything give 110% but my takeaways from this article was that. The maximum efforts equal maximum results and that’s an outdated way of thinking. And instead the article suggests optimal effort. equals a maximum results because we get to burnout culture when we operate at 100 or 110 percent all the time.

Rich:
Yeah.

Maggie:
Which I’ve feel to be true. Do you

Rich:
Like for you personally?

Maggie:
Yes,

Rich:
Like when you’re striving for honored or 110%

Maggie:
Yes.

Rich:
He just he just max out

Maggie:
Yes,

Rich:
Somewhere around 90% Yeah or 70 for me.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
Yeah.

Maggie:
It’s I mean, yeah, you gotta I feel like I need to I I can kind of start to feel when I’m approaching burnout and running on fumes. I guess would be the best way to describe it. I can definitely feel that. Like like the signs and symptoms. Usually what happens is I get so busy. I forget to eat or I forget to like take a break and then my like body basically goes into standby mode and I go into like I kind of get this like brain fog in this fatigue and I’m like, why am I slowing down and then I think like, oh, I just need a cup of coffee. And that doesn’t

Rich:
Snack

Maggie:
And a snack and and when really I should be like pausing to. Like actually eat a meal and like take a break and step away from my computer. But instead I’m like eating lunch in front of my computer or eating lunch in front of my phone and Because I’m trying to keep up. Yeah, or I’m or I’m staging with Joe and I’m like about to faint and he’s like looking for me and I’m in the trailer like snacking on a bag of cashews or like, you know a meat stick or something like that. I’m like in there. He’s like, oh, I’m like, yeah. I just needed to like I needed a break. So yeah,

Rich:
Too many working lunches

Maggie:
Too many working lunches exactly. Nice throwback.

Rich:
Okay. Thanks. So yeah, you’re so right. How about you? I mean

Maggie:
As I sit on my protein shake

Rich:
As you should. Well, all right, so I’d like this what really? We didn’t talk about this yesterday which you know is helpful and thought through some of these things already. I’m just gonna look at my notes again real quick, too.

Maggie:
We talked about how the 85% rule so kind of starts with managers at work.

Rich:
Well, yeah, exactly. So that’s that’s so even. Okay. This is interesting. I say here I go with good. Here we go again that You are Your Own Boss? Yeah. Okay. I’m kind of My Own Boss, but I have employees. and everyone works for someone maybe you know, depending on how you want to think about it but like What this article this so this article is interesting to read but it’s not written for the person. It’s not written for the average person experiencing burnout. It’s actually written to like managers is written to cultures and organizations and leaders and that’s what is really I think this is how we were operating humans things go top down and I think that’s Generally good when those structures operate. as intended and when they operate optimally but when the leadership is busted then the whole thing is gonna yeah, it’s gonna it’s gonna show in the organization. You know what I mean? If the head is sick the body’s gonna also,

Maggie:
Is that what they call a trickle down effect?

Rich:
I don’t know. Maybe I mean that yeah, I think that’s the same. That’s the principle that we’re talking about here. so the whole thing here is like you and you said before is an outdated mindset. That’s really the key to this whole thing is like it’s the way we think about these things and I think I talked a little bit about this last week. If not, that’s like where Mike in the whole coffee Consulting thing that I’m going through. He’s literally module one mindset shifts, you know, we’re thinking through how this is actually all just just psychology money management. It’s psychology. It’s not economics. He’s big on that. It’s it’s all this stuff that is Coming from the way we think about things and there’s a lot of reasons for how our thoughts could shaped and why we think what we think and so like what we believe it comes from. I don’t know experiences or things we’re told or just beliefs we have about bigger picture stuff, whatever. So the all of that feeds into what we believe but and ultimately what we think. but that’s where we got to start I think and so that is where this article was really drilling down for me was like leaders May is really managers need to think differently about about what drives people right burn out all these to pronounce.

Maggie:
Yeah, the other article the art the same article has another point that saying like goes into like the science behind it. So it’s not just about changing culture. It’s actually He gives some scientific. examples of why 85% is better than asking for 100% And he explains that when people meet all day long. They have no breaks in between their meetings. There’s a rise in the beta wave activity which equals a buildup of stress over time. So basically if you’re jumping from one thing to the next to the next and you’re giving a hundred percent at all those things That is going to basically. make and build up stress in your brain, which is going to you know show in other parts. Exhibit symptoms in other parts of your life. Yeah. Basically

Rich:
I was thinking about that when I read that last night because I had just gotten done literally planning out my entire day. Oh, yeah for today. Yeah. I already told you like I was like alright 7:30 to 8:30 record.

Maggie:
Mm-hmm. Eight

Rich:
Forty two nine o’clock drive and nine 15. To 9:45 shop.

Maggie:
Mm-hmm

Rich:
950 Drive.

Maggie:
Sometimes you gotta do that though

Rich:
Back to back stuff. Now. These are these aren’t meetings but they are like

Maggie:
Tasks

Rich:
They’re tasks and their things that they’re back to back now driving maybe constitutes a break. So we’ll see how I feel about that. But at the same time it’s it’s something I’m locked into I got to do and and who knows how the actual times are gonna shake out but it’s funny that I read that and then I had I had just written all that up planning how I was gonna pack so much into my day today. Yeah. Huh? Yeah. Yeah,

Maggie:
One of the things that I started to do to incorporate breaks in my day is I am working on refinishing a piece of furniture. and I used to do this all the time. Like I used to pick up like old janky pieces of furniture from the side of the road and like like reap, you know sand them and repaint them and use them. But I haven’t done that. That’s actually how I started my blog back in the day was like Furniture refurbishing. and I just I realized that I used to get so much. Joy from The transformation of like an old piece of furniture and making it something into something new and beautiful. and so I got this piece of furniture and I like over this past weekend Brandon and I cleaned out our garage and our shed to organize it and make room for Stuff. and we just had a pile up of garbage and junk that it just accumulated and and cleared out a whole Bay of the garage with a table so I could set up and start like working on this project and I I instead of looking at it like I have to finish this whole thing in one day. The furniture is like broken up into like six different pieces or maybe five different pieces, and I’m just like I’m just gonna focus on one side of One Piece. When I get a chance, I’m not going to like put the pressure on myself. Give it a hundred percent at once so to speak. I’m going to do it as I can and so yesterday when afternoon when I came home, I’m like, you know what I feel like I want to work on this furniture. I want to sand it a little bit so I you know open the garage so and I just started sanding and I started listening to this book and it wasn’t even a book of like personal development, which is what I usually do. because I feel like oh if I’m reading a book I put this pressure on myself like oh if I’m reading a book it has to be like a personal development or self-help or learn something but instead I’m like I downloaded a book that was like fiction and I haven’t no I can’t tell you the last fiction book I listened to yeah and and it’s kind of like going hand in hand where like the book in my in my headphones for my headphones in my head and then I like just mindlessly start sanding and start working and like that is been a really cool way to give myself a break throughout the day even though I’m like It is kind of like a physical activity because you’re sanding but it’s like on that it actually is a mental break for me because I’m listening to this book. I’m sanding I’m like working on a project and I think we talked about this podcast early on earlier episodes how we need those projects that we do for ourself,

Rich:
Right? And

Maggie:
We don’t like You know. Post about or it’s not for our business like this is this is for me. This is for my own personal enjoyment. And it’s it’s not going to get done in one day. I know it’s going to take me hours and hours and hours to do it. But I’m really looking forward to the end process. So

Rich:
Yeah, that’s cool. That’s a fun way to break to to building brakes and I think the key and you said I was gonna say it but you then you Set it obviously which is like there’s a difference between the pressure to finish something. And in this whole notion of deadline, there’s no deadline on that. It’s just for you.

Maggie:
It’s just for me.

Rich:
Enjoy me to do it at your own pace. It’s fun. It’s something to do, which is also like a nice way to Have a break sometimes like I get to just do what I want. Yeah for five then yeah minutes and that’s not that is when you don’t have that. It’s when you have no option because you the pressure is on to just do this one thing and be focused on this for you know a set. Block of time or several blocks of time. That’s that I think is where the burnout comes from. We’ve kind of said that before so that’s that’s a great example.

Maggie:
I realize not everybody has the luxury and the time to do that in the middle of their day. Like I did yesterday

Rich:
You have this weird, but

Maggie:
I have a weird schedule like yeah. My my day is broken up like I have I I am expected to be available during business hours and after business hours because I’m well, I mean perfect example last night. I met with Joe our meeting started at six o’clock pm and I didn’t leave and the office until 9 pm. And that was all that was yeah my choice, but that was when Joe was available to meet and like I was actively working for those three hours like planning and ordering furniture and and sometimes I’m showing houses starting at 5 PM, you know writing offers later in the day. So I try not to give myself. a hard time or make myself feel guilty if in the middle of the day, I take a few hours to myself like I go to the gym or I work on a project or I play with my dogs down by the river like those are times in the day where I need to reset and That’s that’s how I’m able to. Continue with you know, yeah

Rich:
My

Maggie:
Schedule. Yeah.

Rich:
Well that

Maggie:
Might look different for somebody else

Rich:
Exactly

Maggie:
Like for them they might Might want to do that in the beginning of their day, or maybe they want to do that at the end of their day or whatever. Lunch break. I don’t know but that’s what works for me in my schedule.

Rich:
What do you do working?

Maggie:
What do you do to relax? Yeah,

Rich:
Great question. I don’t know frankly. Do you have any holidays that way it’s admit it but like

Maggie:
You play guitar?

Rich:
It’s not even that I couldn’t. Necessarily. It’s just that I right now. I’m I don’t know. Yeah, I can play guitar, but I don’t right now like I haven’t in a long time.

Maggie:
I

Rich:
Play music because I write music and the thing about writing music is you need like space and time and uninterrupted Thinking space I do a lot actually like a lot of my lyrical ideas end up. Happening in the car. So I do drive a lot which is nice and sometimes I’ll get like a voice memo on a Melody that goes a lyric or something but like Then to take that and translated to the guitar and then try to build it out from there. It’s that is a huge process actually for me. That I’m largely out of practice with so it’s been a long time since I’ve really had that as as a hobby skateboarding like there’s everything’s a chore dude. They skateboarding is a chore because you got a guess sweaty and you Like be physical and at my Advanced age. I’m not as flexible as was and now I got a kid. So like I can’t afford to get hurt, you know. So what

Maggie:
Are you gonna catch you down the street skateboarding with like knee pads and helmets. And you

Rich:
Know, I’ve actually thought about it. I thought to myself maybe mini ramp skating I could get into because it’s probably a little like just Chiller softer. Just

Maggie:
Tony Hawk is like way more advanced age than you are and he’s still skates.

Rich:
He practice. every day just a difference between doing something every day and doing a professionally as he does and he does wear the knee pads and the helmet right like and he’s he the

Maggie:
Not to

Rich:
Yeah, yeah organization.

Maggie:
Yeah, I didn’t mean to put you on the spot that’s

Rich:
Very apples to oranges. Okay.

Maggie:
I just I was just asking because I just up if you asked me like a week ago. like what my hobbies were I’d be like I can’t even think about a hobby because I’m working so hard and don’t even ask me that because it’s gonna stress me out. Yeah, but now that I’m on like I’m in a little bit of a reprieve. Not really, but like not as crazy. I’m trying to fit more things in like literally like 45 minutes, you know in my day of just something that can take my brain off of Like turn notifications off listen to this book and not think about anything else. Yeah.

Rich:
It’s just funny that I I can’t even think of anything I would do. He kind of doing this scales. I mean, well nothing I’m trying to scale things back but I am I am trying to think about how things need to fit together.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
Things need to fit together and a strategic way a systematic way.

Maggie:
Mm-hmm

Rich:
An optimal way if you will things need to all go in that direction for me in order to like reclaim the bits of time at the end of a day or even beginning of a day. Or or middle of the day, but like my work. time frame is such that I typically will work a long block from like because it’s Cafe hours, basically, so open and close kind of thing and then but like Mondays Tuesdays I have off from shops, but I still have to Meet all my meetings have to happen then I have to record which is great. I have to shop now for two stores. I have to order things and just make sure like everything’s Course like all my office hours a lot of my office hours. Some of those can happen during Cafe hours because you know, depending on how the scheduling is working out with other staff. that said there’s always something it’s just always something. So right now I’m trying to figure out how does everything click together. I know that I know that I can it has to and a lot of things that I currently do can be systematized so that they take up less time because they’ve been thought through and planned on the front end and that’s really what it comes down to when it comes down to systematizing optimizing is like, all right, let’s do some work up front. I’m kind of in that stage right now because there’s so much new stuff that I’m pulling together and learning learning like what they require of me like last week. I just totally blew it. I try to do too many things without the plan and throughout the day game time decisions about where I was gonna go and not gonna go like, Shopped for this one store, but I had all the stuff with me. I had to bring it a story put in the fridge and I could get back to the other place because I live in the middle of these two stores. And so I’m like, all right. Well, I can’t go to the one and then go

Maggie:
What are some examples actually like a good store versus like a food store. Like what were

Rich:
Their shopping?

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
When I say two stores, I mean,

Maggie:
Oh

Rich:
Nice shot

Maggie:
Other shot. Okay gotta working. Gotcha.

Rich:
Yeah,

Maggie:
Okay. I’m

Rich:
Just been calling the stores because the one is this I mean it’s a cafe.

Maggie:
Yeah, I

Rich:
Work in the cafe, but it’s got It’s a store. It’s I don’t say shop as much as I do for storage.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
That’ll good.

Maggie:
I was just confused because you were saying you were shopping and then you are talking about stores and I was trying to like follow

Rich:
You keep it all together. I live pretty much in the middle almost in the middle.

Maggie:
Are two jobs

Rich:
Are my two workplaces.

Maggie:
Yes, and

Rich:
So and both of my workplaces Are 20 minutes from Albany from the restaurant store? Right? So if I go to the restaurant store now I got to decide. Alright, I’m shooting back to storied or my shooting back to the other one and then Am I gonna make it from there? Like past basically backtrack past my house back to the other one and then back to my house just doesn’t make sense if I don’t have planned for the time for that.

Maggie:
Mm-hmm.

Rich:
Like I said a lot of driving on top of Everything else so fine, that’s fine.

Maggie:
Like

Rich:
I’m with you to give you a sense. This is why I don’t have

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
I listen to a lot of Andy Mineo and I just drive from one place to the next and it’s and I’m clicking in all together. So that’s the deal. Yeah yesterday Christine is off this week, and she has like three monies in a row off even without the Week, so I was like I can probably work till noon. I’ll just put everything in the morning. I work till noon and then like I’ll hang out with Christine yesterday and that mostly worked except. it we ended up again ended up getting home closer one then the noon, but But then I didn’t even bring work with me. I was like, you know what I’m gonna bring my back. I’m just gonna bring this. Book because we went to a coffee shop. And you know, those are freaking feeling yeah,

Maggie:
It is a great feeling

Rich:
I can do the order later.

Maggie:
Yep,

Rich:
Because I was I just had stuff to do when I got home, of course. So I don’t know that’s

Maggie:
Work. Life balances is always it’s always a challenge. I I can relate to that like I I can totally relate to that because people are I mean I I got a tech like text from clients. I like nine o’clock at night. And yeah, I was awake because I was at the office with Joe but I’m like, I’m still not gonna like I was like, I can’t I can’t go down this rabbit hole right now. Because it will keep me up at night. I have to.

Rich:
Wow, turn it off Friday. Wait instead of boundary. And

Maggie:
This is a tomorrow problem. And I and I realized I was talking to another real estate agent. Her name is Brenda. Hey, Brenda, and we were we were talking a couple days ago about how his real estate agents Sometimes people will text after hours like at nine o’clock or ten o’clock at night and they’re just trying to get something off their brain and get it sent but we were like there’s reminders for that. You know, like you can you can set yourself a reminder to send somebody a message the next day but at the same time it’s like I’m guilty of that too. Because like I I mean as much as I would I wish clients would think about that for me. I was still like texting like I I’m guilty of that with other people in my life. I’m trying to remember who was it that I texted super late last night.

Rich:
Listen me. No,

Maggie:
I wasn’t you or TJ it was It was somebody else. Yeah, I remember and my phone is on the video, so I can’t even like Reference it but

Rich:
I mean like the security example.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
Literally TJ text last night after midnight. He was working on the audio Yeah, I happen to be awake. So I just sit back. Yeah,

Maggie:
Which doesn’t

Rich:
That’s our we’re just you know him and US yeah. Well, it wasn’t the group chat. But like I knew you’d be asleep. Yeah,

Maggie:
Right. So

Rich:
That’s fine. It’s I was not fun. It’s not I shouldn’t say it. But that’s that’s an example of like and I’ve talked to him about it too. I’m like dude. I don’t want you working that late, but that’s his habits, right? Yeah, you know, I can’t change that but I don’t have to feed into it necessarily but then it’s my habits too because I am just right texting it back. So

Maggie:
Yeah, I think somewhere deep down. He probably knew you were gonna be awake. Well, I mean laundry figure it out. I

Rich:
Was gonna like I texted somebody last night. It was only six. I mean only it was 6:30 last night. This is our food rep with one of the ordering companies, but like just to give you a sense of I said, hey just heads up that I sent order over whenever you get a chance to look at it tomorrow is fine too. So, I mean that’s one way of balancing. I was like be mindful of of how that’s me as a manager thinking. All right this and I know this person, right? Is just always this isn’t even someone who works for me. Technically. This is this is someone who works for another company that we we work with but I know that her work style is to it’s a hundred and ten percent, you know and 110% Yeah,

Maggie:
Not 85

Rich:
Doesn’t end up being. So anyway, it’s not optimal tell you that

Maggie:
Much

Rich:
And this is a way for me to be like, okay, just I’m responding to kind of what you said before you sometimes you got to get something out of your head or you just want to do it. So I’m like I’m gonna text this person at 6:30. I don’t need them to look at this now. So I’m going to give them permissions. This is me kind of when I’m gonna manage the situation, right? For my standpoint. I’m going to give this person permission. to like I don’t need this now. I’m putting it out there just like get it in your mind. Maybe you’ll wake up and think about it and like work it in your flow tomorrow. I don’t need this now, but like but also to get it out of my head and that’s that’s kind of how I I try to be. Mindful of how someone else is going to feel pressure as a result of things that I do. That is my job.

Maggie:
Yeah that brings up a good point that I wrote down from this article. From the Harvard Business review article how I’m as a manager. You could ask yourself. How am I making your work more stressful than it needs to be? And conversely you could be like, how can I make your work less stressful than it needs to be?

Rich:
Yeah. They’re all you text me at 6:30 at night.

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
That’s like that’s a that’s a good question to ask people.

Maggie:
They also also the other note.

Rich:
It’s a hard question.

Maggie:
It’s a hard question the hard question to ask people. Yeah, but I think it needs to be asked as as managers as people who I mean I could ask that question of Joe Joe. How am I making your work more stressful than it needs to be? I mean, I would love it. Maybe if you would be willing. Maybe I’m not but maybe I there are some things that probably drive him nuts. Feel free to give me feedback Joe. The other thing is for the 85% rule Create a quote unquote done for the day time.

Rich:
Yeah, well how I know exactly it’s

Maggie:
How

Rich:
For you, right like I’ve read that I thought about you done for the day time.

Maggie:
What does that even?

Rich:
Okay for one the article, but so this is how are you gonna manage yourself this way because you’re self employed, right? This is such an interesting question for for you to think through. When I think about it. It’s it’s a little bit interesting for me to do too because I I and we’ve just before there’s always something to do. This is the trouble there’s just always something we can do. So, I think that’s what I’m trying to work toward personally, and I don’t know the answer for you. I’d really

Maggie:
I don’t know either.

Rich:
Because For me, it’s like okay. I have to figure out how I can set a time limit on like when I’m ordering when I’m inventory when I’m shopping when I’m going to these places outside of the Cafe hours. and

Maggie:
I I literally have how does this apply to welcome homeco?

Rich:
Oh, yeah,

Maggie:
Like I wrote that to question down as as I was like thinking about today because like I don’t know. How would I create a like? I don’t know. What is it nine o’clock at night. That seems a little late to be creating a done for the daytime. And like I said in the last episode last week, like if I were to do the 25 hour work week, then it would mean like I wouldn’t be able to work in six consecutive or five consecutive hours in the day. I’d have to work an hour here an hour there an hour here and that just feels really like in Consistent to me and doesn’t feel productive to me at all.

Rich:
Right

Maggie:
Because then you’re like breaking up your day because so many. Okay. The other thing is The last brokerage that I was at before Gambler Realty. They would have these trainings and they’d be like really pushing the importance of time blocking. Like you got a Time block your day and I always thought. How the heck am I going to time block my day when? You know people are trying to reach out to me for answers or questions. And yes, I suppose like I could turn my like I did yesterday when I was sanding the furniture. I kind of like put my phone on over there and had my headphones in but I don’t know I guess. these are not questions that I’m expecting answers to these are just questions that I’m tossing out there to our audience the universe like, okay what? We don’t have the answers right? We’re just simply asking the questions and kind of pointing the figures

Rich:
Almost thoughts than I thought I would talking yesterday. I’m like, yeah, I should really don’t know

Maggie:
Man. I know yesterday. We we should have been recording our conversation yesterday. It was really good. But whatever we had you I mean you did have some good thoughts. Do you remember some of the thoughts that you had about? I do. Remember you’re saying you were for story. Do you want to do more? I took some notes do more with less.

Rich:
Yeah,

Maggie:
You

Rich:
Just doesn’t like I’m thinking through. I don’t know how to apply this to someone that works from this for themselves or Works in real estate industry. That’s why I don’t know your situation. I do know. Okay, so I do know that and this is how the article starts out Optimum effort is better than maximum

Maggie:
Effort. Got it, right.

Rich:
Maximum effort is the notion that you you got to go all in all the time 110 percent even a hundred percent. It’s like that’s that broken mindset of give your all. for as long as you can and you’ll crush it. Yeah, you know and I think they said in like

Maggie:
Sports too, because like aren’t they finding the players an athletes who are giving a hundred and 110% or more prone to injury like physical injury,

Rich:
Probably

Maggie:
Then the athletes who operated 85% I think the same can we go can be said physically too.

Rich:
Yeah, definitely. I don’t know if you’re referencing something outside of the article, but the article literally have was interviewing a well just drew with some quotes from a like a track athlete maybe an Olympic.

Maggie:
Yep

Rich:
Medalist several times over and that person was saying sometimes the most like productive thing you can use rest.

Maggie:
Yes and

Rich:
How it’s really not about pushing yourself too hard. It’s about having enough rest and enough of like the mindset that you need and having a full like a holistic technique around your performance. So the training yes, but like the technique. Yes, the the rest. Yes all like this it’s a whole system that kind of works together and it’s more about optimal. Work than it is. Like maximum work, so so I’m really trying to focus personally on this whole optimizing thing this optimal. Productivity optimal workflow because I really have come to believe in the last six months through. Through a couple things like just the reality of my business and my life, okay. That was one thing that’s it’s been pretty rough for the last five years. Then I had a kid in January. So we’ve all heard about that. That’s cool. That is a major factor that requires me to not be so focused on work. Also, I have a wife and that is a major factor. Now we both have to care for this kid and it can’t be one. It can’t be all Christine. It can’t be all me. Like it has to be very shared burden, but I have to be available for that to be true. So those things all kind of happens. It’s just happens six months ago. They happen at the beginning this year and it was it was a good timing because of just the way everything kind of led up to that point time. And then I was reading a book. So it hasn’t paternity leave. I think I’ve talked through all this too. So I’m not gonna you really had paternity leave. post oh, they’re being born. And so I had I was I was crunching some numbers. I had time to like do some number stuff that I’d never had time to do before and then I was reading this book called The E myth I’ve talked to you about this. I think I’ve maybe said it here, but that book really is the first place that got me thinking like you have to systematize your business. You have to make your even if you’re a small business owner. This is the whole premise of the book. You might be, you know, Sally’s pie shop. I forget the name of the girl in the book. That is the like case study. But basically you’re just a small town pie shop, right, but you need to run your business like it’s a franchise. This is the whole it is the whole thing of the E myth you need to have a business that is a prototype of of any number of businesses that are exactly like it so that you as the owner the work you do. Is actually to design the business the work you’re gonna do is to systematize the business so that anyone can step into your shoes. Yeah your shoes as an owner per say necessarily. There’s things that an owner needs to do that. Only an owner can do Visionary stuff things that are really moving creative things entrepreneurial things like the business owner. But what happens is the business owner gets stuck working in their business for whatever reasons poor management poor design. No systems. The owner has to make up for the things that don’t the owner is the infrastructure. Here’s your quote. The owner is the infrastructure until the owner builds the infrastructure. That’s gonna hold the business up while they step away from it. That’s just my mental like image of the concept in the e-myth. And so I was reading that and then I was thinking to myself. All right. how Can we start to optimize story? What can we do to make it make processes one defined too simpler? what menu items can we cut what hours can we change what Staffing do we need, you know and and there’s kind of becomes this balance of all right, you need good people but at the end of the day, it doesn’t almost matter who that person is what you need is the system that doesn’t require a lot of skill. You know braces like to get a oh and and business owners. We like to get like this identity thing this Pride about like how skilled we are and yes, you have to be willing to learn the techniques but like the less complicated something is the easier. It’s gonna be for anyone to do it. So that an owner doesn’t have to be the only one who can do it. Right? And so that is that’s been my project for the last six months is thinking through that on just the level of storied. And now as I add other things it’s like, okay, how can I apply these same principles over there and put it all together? And how can we get optimal effort in these places? And I’m trying to do this if for myself sure, but I’m also like you know, I’ve talked about how Abby really is the manager at storied now and I want this for her because good systems. Are what take good care of people,

Maggie:
Right?

Rich:
Okay, and if an owner does the work to design that infrastructure? that creates space for people to Have a good working environment. That’s not toxic and doesn’t require them to do more than Their humanly capable of then that’ll be a good place to work and so Abby and I’ve been talking through that because right now the cash the income situation. Is a little bit maxed out like we find we hit this sort of we know what are like top level is of income. And so The Logical next step is like, all right, we have to increase the revenue. So the only way to do that at this point is to invest money I think and I’m literally actually one of my meetings today is a meeting with a marketing professional to to start doing some some true social media presence and and and stuff like that because That’s the only way to it to increase because we have gone we’ve combed through the business and we’ve said all right, we can’t cut anything else. We have no more staff to cut. Yeah, we have no more hours to cut sure.

Maggie:
We

Rich:
There’s there’s we’ve kind of done everything we can on the back end and now we’re just at this Revenue ceiling that we need to we need to break through. Because that’s gonna be the next step that helps Olivia Abby’s burden because then we can maybe bring in some.

Maggie:
Yeah

Rich:
Some more staff. That we can’t currently do

Maggie:
Sure. So

Rich:
Okay. That’s a lot together at the end of

Maggie:
I know but I mean that’s what always happens. That’s the story of this podcast. But we so I said like doing more with less. It’s a management conversation AKA a leadership slash expectation conversation and That’s that’s it. That’s basically the answer to I don’t what did I ask how am I making your work more stressful than it needs to be or create a done for the day time? I don’t think we answered that question, but I think What you were trying to say, is that creating systems in your business? will help with making the day-to-day things. Less stressful so you’re not constantly like having to run and operate at 110% because when you have systems in place, it almost allows them to run themself once you get it going. Yeah,

Rich:
Absolutely. Absolutely, every person consistent with ties their workflow. whether you own a business or manage a family this is that’s the next plate the Christina. I’ve kind of been talking about this like chores don’t get done because I’m not home that much she works. Um or like when I’m home, I’m not thinking about how the how the chores got to get done. So. So this is another area that I’m like all right, we’re gonna get a chore chart and we’re gonna we’re gonna we’re gonna account for all the chores that need to get done. We’re gonna say whether they need to happen. That’s the worst weekly daily. Right

Maggie:
Brandon. I played chicken when it comes to the dishwasher like we both hate.

Rich:
I don’t even have a dishwasher there. Are you kidding me right now,

Maggie:
But I’m just saying we have a small dishwasher. It’s not even a full size. It’s 18 and like I figured out that This is such a random side note, but it’s like whatever if the dishwasher is clean, we hate like we both hate unloading it. And then that we just play chicken. So like we’ll just go throughout the week like instead of unloading the dishwasher at once which literally takes five minutes. We’ll just take like clean. Dishware out of the dishwasher as we go. So if I need a plate I’ll just like pull it from the dishwasher instead of like just unloading it. Anyways, that was a really big Sidetrack, but

Rich:
What a microcosm of a system that you could optimize

Maggie:
So

Rich:
And there are workers involved and there’s like workflow. Oh my gosh, what you want to know what an hour

Maggie:
Talking about irony of that is that because neither of us will just take five minutes to the dishwasher. Because it’s clean. Like we’ll have like stacks of other dishes like on the side of the sink. So it’s like it actually is creating a like Crazier like sink area. I don’t know why I’m going into this story but it just is like I’m just trying to let you know that I can relate to stuff not getting done at home too. Because you’re just like you don’t want to think about it. Yeah, you just want to like ignore it.

Rich:
Well, yes, that’s funny except Except you’re you’re aware of the problem. And the problem in my situation is that I’m not even aware of.

Maggie:
Okay? Okay,

Rich:
So that’s where I was going was like you have to first become aware of what is that at hand? And that’s the process. I’m engaged in across the board right now. I’m like what is going on everywhere? What? What is the problem here? What’s currently happening just taking stock of the processes? And so I bought like a chore chart? Going through it daily monthly weekly whatever and

Maggie:
You get a gold star.

Rich:
I mean that could be a good part of the system Rewards. At this point I will just get. The wife will be more pleased with you always benefit.

Maggie:
I also have one final thought is what you said yesterday, which I thought was really interesting. 85% is greater than a hundred percent.

Rich:
Yeah. 85% is greater than 100%

Maggie:
I think that’s the title of this podcast

Rich:
Which which doesn’t. It doesn’t math but it does it does matter.

Maggie:
It does math

Rich:
This whole thing everything if you want to sum up this whole like conversation an episode in this article and stuff. The whole thing is like it’s about the way we manage our stuff Okay. This is all about management. And it really it’s all about leadership. It’s about how you are going to.

Maggie:
It’s

Rich:
About what you’re going to expect of. the people responsible for things okay in some cases that’s you yourself. I’m respect. I’m managing how I’m responsible for things what things I’m responsible for and then I’m The leadership part is like it’s not just there’s I don’t there’s there’s a subtle difference. Maybe there’s lines to be drawn between leadership and management leaders manage, but not all managers lead like you can you can kind of talk about that kind of stuff because there’s there’s something more. There’s something more about leadership. Um, but for me it what comes down to is is caring about the people. That you are accountable for. And so even if that’s yourself like you largely,

Maggie:
That’s the hardest

Rich:
You’re for people. I guess in your situation, you know

Maggie:
My opinion like I find it harder to care for myself and it is for other than other people. I think that’s why yeah, we’re easy burnt out.

Rich:
We usually the short from ourselves and that’s Human nature probably I don’t think that’s the design. I don’t think it’s supposed to be that way necessarily. It’s all dude. It’s all a system it all works together, man. Yeah, I don’t even know if we got anywhere with this. Like there’s we get do we talked about some feeling we are just scratching the

Maggie:
Surface. No

Rich:
It I know it took so many notes. I

Maggie:
Know

Rich:
We had such a good conversation yesterday. There’s just so many ways that to like apply this stuff and it touches on so many things. This is why burnouts real?

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
We’re not trying to have a whole series on right?

Maggie:
And who would have thought that just like a few weeks ago? We thought we were just touch on it in one episode and this is now it’s turned into like three or four episodes about this, but this is I mean the fact that we’re spending so much time talking about it tells me that. It’s a thing and we’re not the only one experiencing it.

Rich:
Yeah,

Maggie:
Haven’t you been getting feedback from people? At least in person. I know I have.

Rich:
I had a conversation recently, but it wasn’t particularly about. I don’t think it was particularly about burnout. We just we have some talks about other things that I’ve said, but Yeah, I mean. What did you hear?

Maggie:
Just that the conversations have been really resonating with people because they are like don’t one person was like I didn’t understand the level of intensity that you know real estate is like if you’re not in it in a day-to-day basis, you don’t really understand it. And then the other person really resonated with what we said last week about needing a culture shift and how it’s not necessarily about. Putting more houses on the market. We really just need to change the culture of real estate agents and the expectations of what are what we do like we as agents real estate agents need to change the expectations of our clients and the general public and it’s like it’s not going to change overnight and there’s always going to be people who I think I said this last time like I can set boundaries and I can set a done for the daytime. But there’s somebody else out there. Unless there’s a major culture shift. There’s always going to be someone out there who’s like, well, I’m not done for the day. I’ll take I’ll take you on and then. It just kind of perpetuates this. Well, someone’s always was willing to text me back at like nine or ten o’clock or whatever.

Rich:
I’m just

Maggie:
An example.

Rich:
That’s a good example and I thought the same thing just before you said that of like this is why we can’t get ahead is because there’s always gonna be someone else. Who is just who is doing that because they’re like that person’s gonna take a rest. I’m not but look. Honestly, Maggie, I I think these are lies, dude. I’m calling us out. I think I think that’s the LIE we buy into really. I just think that’s a rationalization. Hmm. for why this Behavior has to happen and I think is not easy to say or do is and it might not even possible and this might just be like me waxing poetic, right? But at the end of the day, there’s gonna in order to have a change in your life. There’s gonna have to be a time where you simply say, I do not take calls past that time anymore. and the person who will That’s the person for them.

Maggie:
Or so true

Rich:
Or you offer something else that that person still doesn’t offer. Beyond a simple availability if your greatest asset Is simply your unlimited availability then? I don’t know. Maybe you’re missing something. And I’m not saying you are. Okay. Probably not at the 11th

Maggie:
Hour.

Rich:
He I really I heard was hearing you say that and I say the same things and I was just like but that’s the problem is that we say this and that we allow it and I just think the the change just has to start so quickly. The change really just has to start with some choices. We’re making about our boundaries and about our systems and That’s it. Okay, the uniqueness of your particular industry and your particular region Etc like without there’s there’s still And like what’s other words just like exceptions apply?

Maggie:
Yep,

Rich:
But like they don’t make the rule kind of thing. We have to maybe just get to a place where we’re unwilling to say. Yeah, I can call me anytime. And I’m gonna I’m gonna send this text, right? If you have to do an offer or whatever like in your particular. I’m now I don’t think through your questions. I if you’re if you have to do a particular thing at a certain time, it’s like sometimes you expect that. That’s true and seasonally maybe that happens more than others. but like and you can develop a system to where okay, when that happens like you have a procedure you have a protocol

Maggie:
Right?

Rich:
Like I’ve got the forms ready. I’ve got the emails, you know you so you can kind of still systematize us to to where when that has to happen. It’s You plan for it. That’s what templates you’ve played for a templates is there that kind of thing is like what can you do so that no matter the person the situation that arises there’s a thought process already thought through and a plan to execute so that it doesn’t take as much time as it could and then it’s it’s as little disruptive as possible. for things that have to happen outside of the normal boundaries, but I just think really what I’m trying to say is comparing our situation with someone else and saying hey look that person is or this culture this whole group of people is willing to be there when I’m not it’s just like That’s just has to be a reality. It’s on them. It can no longer be on us because otherwise, it’s Never Gonna Change. It just that’s how it’s how it’s got a shift.

Maggie:
Wow, rich good thoughts. That’s something to think about.

Rich:
Yeah, I’m gonna think about that. I think that we just rationalize this I think we all do it. Yeah managers are and people buy in to that culture because it’s it’s just like it’s there we breathe.

Maggie:
Yeah, and

Rich:
That’s why it’s so easy for us to say. Oh, there’s no way to change it but really Really really? It’s just hard to change it for ourselves personally. Now, there might be some personal costs to make those kind of decisions and and there’s definitely little faith involved like we have to just trust that there’s going to be enough within my scheduled hours. Or hey, if it’s meant to be it’s up to me. I’m gonna make the opportunity exist within that time frame. I’m gonna agree. I’m gonna create difference. You just have to do things differently. by forcing yourself Mike talks about this in his in his The stuff this this the like I don’t like the guy’s name. Parkinson’s like Parkinson’s law Parkinson’s rule or something like that. He is the guy who’s famous for I think discovering. Naming Parkinson’s disease, but this isn’t that just as like a as a general sort of principle of of the universe. It goes something like work expands to fill the time. Allowed for it, right? So if you have less time for something this out budgeting works if you have less time for something then you’re gonna do it. What does that deadlines work if less time for something you’re gonna do it in the time lot, you know,

Maggie:
Okay

Rich:
To borrow my example. He’s like if you Have all semester to write an essay. It takes you all semester read an

Maggie:
Essay, right? But

Rich:
If you leave it to the last minute, it takes you four hours straight and Essay,

Maggie:
Right

Rich:
And that that’s an extreme example, but it kind of

Maggie:
That was me ever

Rich:
So sure I was like that’s a crazy example. That is the way our work can work. But in order to fit it into a certain time frame that’s a little more limited. We just have to be entrepreneurial about it. We got it think differently and create different channels for people to to work within and We have to either find other ways to create more opportunity to make up for that the difference like whatever’s quote lost or we just got to be satisfied with less.

Maggie:
Hmm

Rich:
If possible.

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
Just look at download. It’s like yeah, that’s right. Oh, man, I gotta go say 34. I gotta be another card to six minutes on the road

Maggie:
That that was that was a good hot take at the end.

Rich:
Look dude. I don’t know what I’m talking about. All right.

Maggie:
No, you deal. You do know it like, you know, I don’t think like you’re in the middle of implementing those things right now. So it’s It’s it’s definitely I can sense the like passion from your voice because you’re like in the middle of it right now and you’re acting yeah it is and you’re trying to actively you know, put those things in play and

Rich:
Christine’s gonna listen to this should be. All right, dude. It’s time

Maggie:
To say that and hopefully this resonates with our audience too because someone out there listening is probably in a similar situation in their business or their creative pursue. That we are yeah, you know

Rich:
Do less guys.

Maggie:
Yeah

Rich:
Do less

Maggie:
85% is greater than a hundred.

Rich:
So true. Yeah, I think the most yeah, so that’s like the takeaway from here. I’m actually just read the last I literally quoted it and we can wrap with this unless you have anything else to know

Maggie:
I’m good.

Rich:
Say this is a direct quote from the from the thing and look we can talk more about this. I imagine we will okay. The whole direct quote from Greg McCune. Yeah from the article. It’s the last quote of the article. And I kind of walked away from the article thinking to myself. It really is all about the management and it really is like we got to give people permission to work optimally and not maximally like right we don’t need a hundred percent from you. We need you to give like, how’s 85% We need to give 85% and and that’s all we need from you because you’re gonna give us you’re gonna give you’re going to give us a hundred percent of 85% rather than 50% of 100%

Maggie:
Right?

Rich:
That’s how the math works on this one. Alright, this is the quote the 85% rule may seem counterintuitive. However in the in this time of ongoing persistent burnout. It has the power of relevancy. As Dr. Steven elardi a psychologist at the University of Kansas has written another quote within a quote human beings were never designed for the poorly nourished sedentary. Indoor sleep deprived socially isolated frenzied pace of 21st century life.

Maggie:
Dang,

Rich:
You heard it here first.

Maggie:
Yeah, I like it.

Rich:
We’ll catch you next time.

Maggie:
Wow. Later.