26: Meep Morp! Algorithmic Aversion, Evolving Technologies With AI & Future Generations

Intro:
Hey, you’re drinking house coffee – unfiltered conversations brewed at the intersection of real estate life and coffee shop service. We’re Maggie and Rich – local business owners and friends sharing stories and welcoming you to pull up a chair with us. The door’s always open. Let us pour you a cup.

Maggie:
So I have a kid now.

Rich:
Wow,

Maggie:
Which you already knew?

Rich:
I did know trying to think of how to react to that. Congratulations.

Maggie:
Thank you. In the interest of like protecting this kid’s identity and everything. I’ll just say that well you you already know this kid, but

Rich:
Great kid

Maggie:
Great kid. they I’ve known I’m gonna also not use pronouns because again, I know I’m not trying to be like politically correct, but also just like this is

Rich:
Yeah,

Maggie:
You know I

Rich:
Sensitive

Maggie:
Sensitive situation, so I’ve known this child my entire life. They’ve known me their entire life. So I’m excited. It’s been a really interesting past week and excited to say that. They’ve been accepted into a local school and they start tomorrow which they start this week. So when you hear this episode they’ve started school already and it’s just been a really interesting. It’s been a really interesting experience so far, so kind of like heading straight first diving straight into parent Hood with Brandon has been very interesting especially for A pre

Rich:
Pubescent

Maggie:
Kid. It’s been interesting.

Rich:
Yeah.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
Now you guys have been on not to get into your personal business, but you’ve been thinking about fostering and

Maggie:
Yes

Rich:
Getting set up for that. Yeah

Maggie:
For

Rich:
A while. So this is exactly like on you you’re in no way unprepared

Maggie:
Act

Rich:
Or unexpected. This is like in line with

Maggie:
Yeah, so a little bit again a little personal Brandon and I we became foster parents earlier this year through a local organization called Berkshire farm and we’ve been in the process of preparing our house and our home for a kid or or a couple of kids. We don’t know really yet. And in my mind, I guess I imagine that we would have like a baby or like a younger child under the age of three. So in all of my preparations like and again if you’ve been listening to this podcast for a long time, no you like. you may not have noticed but like certain things that I’ve been working on like a projects and like preparing for our home like the furniture thing that I work on when like I like to relax and stuff like I’ve been refinishing a crib that also turns into a toddler bed because of thinking like I want to be prepared in case I get a phone call and they’re like we have a baby. We need you to take and coincidentally enough. the the day that Our current I’m going to just say our current kid was about to move in Berkshire Farm. Texted us and told us that they had a four day old baby. They needed a home for and I was like, this is not how I picture it would go but like that’s what life is right like you picture certain thing and so anyways, yeah, obviously we we had to pass on on that particular placement because of this other kid and Yeah, it’s been it’s been really good so far. We’ve had a great transition so far knock on wood, so Yeah,

Rich:
Well, that’s that’s lovely here. And yes, sounds like all good things. All good things. I

Maggie:
Caught you off guard with that one. Yeah, it’s all good. It’s all good. That’s

Rich:
Cool news. I’m happy we can share it.

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
And happy for you guys excited to get to know a Little Tike better. Just okay nowhere near A Little Tike.

Maggie:
No,

Rich:
Not sure what that age cutoff is, but

Maggie:
Mmm

Rich:
Well, that’s fun with so what have you been listening to

Maggie:
Great question? I have been listening to Every possible podcast I could possibly get my hands on on how to raise preview best children.

Rich:
Are you kidding?

Maggie:
I’m not kidding. I’ve been like literally every spare moment I have by myself. I’m like listening to Parenting podcasts about like how to handle social media how to handle phones how to handle conflict how to handle emotions how to handle puberty like all these things that like You know at least like for you and I when we were going through that age like we didn’t have to worry about social media. Or phones or things like that or like, you know, all these like dangers that true kids these days have to face in school and outside of school. And so I’m doing everything I can to just like I mean nothing will ever prepare you have to just sort of like live it but I’m trying to like listen to The Experts so to speak on what they recommend for. Kids who are have growing and developing brains. Like what’s what’s the best route for handling? conflict in school conflict with peers conflict with teachers Conflict at home and in my case like conflict with me and Brandon or conflict with this kid’s parents and so Is very interesting Dynamic and any parent advice? On raising a teenager would be greatly appreciated.

Rich:
Wow, well, you heard it here.

Maggie:
No, literally. her first this is the first place. I’ve shared this information that I probably won’t. Share it anyplace else because there’s not really a point but amazing

Rich:
Conversation totally. Yeah right on. Well, I have a nine month old.

Maggie:
I know that

Rich:
So I got no. No insight for you on that whole teenage front just yet. And like you said, our our teenage experience was very different from the the modern teenage experience.

Maggie:
Oh, well, this kid really? Enjoys a ripstick. Do you know what that is?

Rich:
I sure do.

Maggie:
So just watch out

Rich:
You ought to get one of those boards that has four wheels though bottom. Maybe yeah, let’s check that out sometime.

Maggie:
Maybe is that a cold skateboard? Yeah.

Rich:
Yeah, you might call it. You might call it a skateboard.

Maggie:
Yeah. What have you been listening

Rich:
To get the hang of the ripstick? So it’s not that I’m against it. Just my own my own weakness there.

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
What have I been listening to well kind of re up being on some of these same AI podcasts. Yeah. the ones I enjoyed or found the most helpful. Listen to a couple Dateline

Maggie:
Really

Rich:
Podcasts. Yeah, it’s true crime sure kind of stuff.

Maggie:
Wow. Dateline

Rich:
Yeah Dylan, let me see.

Maggie:
Hmm. Yeah. No, I’m familiar. That’s a surprise me.

Rich:
Um, yeah. Well, there’s I don’t know how it was subscribed and there was a new one and I

Maggie:
Mm-hmm was

Rich:
Do I find that what I’m doing work like If I’m like working around the shop or I’m doing food prep or something like that. That’s or I’m doing dishes. That’s when I can sometimes there’s crave a little true crime rate in that I

Maggie:
Reason I don’t know. Yeah,

Rich:
So I was on that kick,

Maggie:
But it’s mindless like not mindless, but it’s like entertaining.

Rich:
Yeah, it’s something it’s interesting dude. I don’t know True Crime is so interesting.

Maggie:
I like that kind of stuff when I’m folding. Laundry.

Rich:
I’m just like, how can you how can you kill a person? You know what I mean? I just that I think that’s the one that’s the thing that gets me whenever I’m listening to trick. I’m like, how can you do it? You know,

Maggie:
I

Rich:
Don’t. And like why?

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
How can someone do that? Just I’m just always left for that question. Yeah, and how can you be so insensitive

Maggie:
Right,

Rich:
You know? Oh, am I coming up on a great transition to AI?

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
Can you be so robotic how can you have so little like human? connection about you, you know Anyway, those are the questions that much.

Maggie:
Yes GPT about it.

Rich:
Amen very fun. Yeah, I don’t know nothing real specific. That’s just old Dateline.

Maggie:
Cool

Rich:
Little I will shout out. I’ll talk more about as we have our conversation today, but I will shout out the the management lab that is the podcast that I found the most like directly speaking to this Converse this Thing of artificial intelligence and they did several different episodes on. On different things and the first one that kind of got it all sparked for me. Was there one on algorithmic aversion which I think will feature heavily.

Maggie:
Wait a minute. I’ve already listened to the one of those episodes. Yeah

Rich:
Use that one.

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
And then they did another one that was specifically on generative Ai and kind of honed in on Chad GPT. But then I even heard a third episode last night. That was a little bit more about like the I’m just more of Wrestling with you know, what? Is it going to be our relationship to AI moving forward? So again, go ahead.

Maggie:
Well was that podcast on the list that

Rich:
No,

Maggie:
We

Rich:
The third one.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
They’re just mentioned. Yeah. No, I didn’t even realize they had a third one on it. It just came up next on my listening as I was autoplayed. They have other app they have. They’ve they started this podcast. I think earlier this year is these two professors one is based in Sydney one is based at Rochester Institute of Technology. They both have varied backgrounds of learning and Academia, but they have kind of come around toward. Business and our financials maybe in marketing and stuff. So they just like tie all these cool things together. They also speak like professors.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
They explain things. Well, though, like they explain it for a general audience, even though they use words or they use these words like tossological and just philosophical like kind of words that you know, speak to my soul. Yeah. From when I was studying that kind of stuff too.

Maggie:
So

Rich:
As it’s pretty it’s pretty fun to listen to And informative

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
Yeah,

Maggie:
Cool.

Rich:
Oh, what I was gonna say is they have other episodes on other things

Maggie:
Gotcha

Rich:
Because of their broader context of like we want to help managers. or people in organizational structures function understand the understanding like the culture of those things or understand like the atmosphere and and then bring it to To bear on their work. So there’s they have a lot of takeaways and things so I haven’t listened to other episodes on other stuff because I was trying to find what’s very relevant to

Maggie:
Gotcha

Rich:
What we’re doing but So yeah, they have more going on. So that’s sounds like an interesting podcast that I could learn other things from.

Maggie:
Yeah, cool.

Rich:
Okay. We got a piece of mail.

Maggie:
Yeah

Rich:
From Kurt. Shout out curly. I’m not gonna read the whole thing. He wrote us a couple paragraphs. The first one was. just mentioning about how he’s a lifelong practitioner of thrifting and he was appreciating our conversation on all of that. He did say he enjoyed the Riff about how this about how storied the lives are of the objects. We acquire secondhand.

Maggie:
Yes.

Rich:
So I’m pretty sure that was my riff. So thanks Kurt. Okay, but then he also comments on the AI. Conversation that we began last week and will continue today. And I found this interesting because this was really in line with the two professors. I’m listening to the podcast. So he says because Kurt we’ve probably referenced him before he’s a professor. in central New York area, but he kind of goes between there and like Albany a lot slash loves story and has made that kind of A place to hang out. I think he has family in this area. Anyway, given all curse personal details. But anyway as far he So he’s thinking about all this from like in like a writing in English. Perspective like a professors perspective. So he says as far as AI goes it’s the single most talked about thing in all circles. of Academia right now and the opinions run the gamut from Damnation to Salvation and I’ll stop between writing and Humanities educators of which I’m one are particularly stirred up on account of ai’s ability to generate academic Pros that is pretty hard to distinguish from Human generated writing. It’s unclear what its impact is going to be but it’s a great upon by most it’s a game changer on a level. We may never have seen before. I thought that was an interesting line because in the episode that I listened to that you didn’t listen to from the management lab the third one on AI they talked just they talked exactly about this. About how the circles they’re running in in Academia. It’s kind of all the buzz and they were talking about this very thing like what is the ascar but a game changer on a level. We may have never seen before and those other guys they talk about how like we’ve had we’ve had a revolutions, you know, the Industrial Revolution the technological like we’ve had these different revolutions over time. And how is is this one maybe like on another level of Revolution, you know? and then he

Maggie:
Will tell

Rich:
He shouts out a I think a podcast episode. AI as a mass extinction event for dead ideas in teaching and learning hmm That is the episode. That’s the title of a podcast a presumance podcast episode from Columbia University Center for teaching and learning. So, thanks Kurt. And yeah, I mean that’s kind of the open question.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
Not to jump right in but to Jump Right In. Ai’s ability to generate academic Pros that is pretty hard to distinguish.

Maggie:
Mm-hmm

Rich:
From Human generated writing. I mean we kind of talked about that last week. I don’t know. I I don’t know. I mean, I guess it’s hard like, okay. So one of the episodes I sent you. Was the best friend energy?

Maggie:
Yes.

Rich:
Episode yeah,

Maggie:
Where

Rich:
They They said are we out of a job.

Maggie:
Yes, because they did like they had chat. They did a prompt with chat GPT to to say create a conversation and Clea and Joanna’s voice and then like they read the conversation of their specific parts and they were saying how scarily like their AI personality script was to themself.

Rich:
Okay, but what did you think about it? So you heard them read it you heard the language? Yeah. You know those two in terms of their voice and their style writing speaking. What did you think when you heard that? that AI generated content in the style of Clio Johanna

Maggie:
When I was listening to it. I actually like it didn’t really surprise me too much because there is a ton of content out there. That is what written in their voices and their voices like they’re on YouTube. They’re on Netflix. They’re on the internet. They’re on Instagram. They are, you know all over the place in terms of like it’s not difficult to find. content about CLIA and Joanna So I would think I would be more scared or like more impressed if it was like. Like a No Name person or people that like you don’t wouldn’t really know. I don’t know information out there.

Rich:
I think I don’t know if you’re interpreting. My question. My question is what did you think of the quality of it?

Maggie:
Oh quality,

Rich:
Because well you’re I think what you’re saying is you’re not impressed that it was able to

Maggie:
Yes

Rich:
Come up with this because there’s The way AI works is it’s sort of synthesizes a generative AI like like chat like Chad GPT. It’s synthesizes like a set of data. You might call it the whole internet to a certain point certain point in time

Maggie:
And

Rich:
It’s synthesizes stuff out there very quickly and then pulls it all together and gives you this this content.

Maggie:
Yes, so and tonight pause you for a second sure. I actually have a great definition from the AI marketing Made Simple. She summarized it really well generative AI is basically think of it as your personal digital assistant who loves to create and it’s the type of artificial intelligence that uses machine learning and algorithms to generate new original content from scratch. That’s her definition. So yeah of generative AI. so

Rich:
And that’s Annie you kind of you you have a little bit like what machine learning is and I’m not equipped to say that but I think it’s that concept of Coming through all that data, and that’s pulling it together. So you want to

Maggie:
Add no, that’s all that’s all. I just want to interrupt you. Say that.

Rich:
So what were you were describing kind of how that process would would work a little bit with? Clear and Joanna because there’s so much out there. and that’s so that’s a great example though of how AI would work because it’s got so much to draw on and then it can put that out there. But when I’m where it really asking you is how Like how did it hit you? Did it sound natural enough. Did it sound human enough. Did it sound? Fake or awkward or you know, they were really impressed.

Maggie:
They were really impressed with it. I think it sounded.

Rich:
To you. How did it sound you

Maggie:
Sounded it just It’s tough because I knew it was AI so I was listening to it with the like the AI filter. So I almost wish that they like maybe like said the conversation and then we’re like, oh by the way, this was generated by AI because I already had that preconceived. Yeah AI like oh this was I AI generated but had I not knowing what I know. I still think that the conversation was pretty. Was pretty I want to say spot on but it was. It was interesting to hear like because they do have very different voices and very they had to get very different way of speaking and like AI was able to match the tone and language of Joanna and match the tone and language of Clea in a way that they speak in real life.

Rich:
Yeah.

Maggie:
That I thought that was interesting. Yeah and unique. What it wasn’t it didn’t surprise me. I don’t know if that’s

Rich:
No, I’m not surprised that what AI

Maggie:
Okay.

Rich:
What Chad GPT can do it’s designed to do that. Yeah where I have struggled and I spoke to this last time. I have struggled with how unnatural it can sound at times and I think that that’s an important thing. It’s a it’s a clue into and And bring around for today, so all right for today. Last week, we we introduced the topic of artificial intelligence not because we’re particularly. Like involved with it. Neither of us is particularly using it in depth in our businesses. I’m actually not using it at all. I’ve just

Maggie:
You said last weekend you are against using it in your business for social media.

Rich:
I had Story Coffee have a poor experience. I’m not inherently against it. But I feel like I had a poor experience with it in line with the poor experience is that I think a lot of people have with AI generated content you but you have more specific uses for it that you spoke to.

Maggie:
Yeah, and

Rich:
That’s good. So I’m trying to say we’re not into this we’re not talking about this because we’re like so invested in it. We’re talking about it because it’s kind of because everyone was talking about it in one sense. But also I wanted to it’s something that is because everyone’s talking about it and because it could have potential benefit for our businesses or our friends listening You know, maybe it’s worth bringing out there. A little bit more and looking more deeply at it because without forcing myself to kind of look at it. As a result of having conversation, I would maybe just be the kind of person to dismiss it.

Maggie:
Yeah, and

Rich:
And try to just go my separate go our separate ways me and

Maggie:
Lean more on human interaction. Yeah.

Rich:
Yeah lean more on human connection because that’s what I’m Inclined to do

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
But you know, I think I don’t know. It’s like a love it’s like a love it or hate it kind of thing and and I think somebody compared to like Facebook I think JJ in one of the marketing Made Simple podcasts compared to like Facebook right anything. That’s new.

Maggie:
Yeah

Rich:
Is something that we might be a verse two at first, you know, we we fear first. Is kind of the way. I wrote that down. As a note for myself we tend to fear things that are unknown as this is very human of us, right? We tend to fear the unknown and try to just go with what we know. And AI is like this. I don’t know. It can be a scary thing. Maybe it’s like this unknown entity. Is coming for our Humanity, you know, like it’s just like on so many levels and it’s in it’s in everything. That’s another thing that’s so interesting about

Maggie:
Right

Rich:
Artificial intelligence is like you never know where it’s going to crop up. Is cropping up in the way we write Pros. It’s cropping up in the way. We understand. Financials Business Health advertising that’s directed toward us. We talked about on our GPS. Apps, you know, it’s it’s kind of in everything and you wouldn’t even know I thought about this like I hate when I get on a website and I try to like chat on there. And all I’m getting are are auto-generated responses. chatbots that have no option of connecting to a person who can actually answer my real questions, you know, my nuanced questions. All they have are these these AI Bots that like are meant to give you pre-existing articles on your issue and I’m frustrated with those kinds of experiences. I’m like, I’m like, dude. So AI is like it’s kind of everywhere can’t really avoid. I would love to be the kind of person who could just live under a rock and avoid that kind of

Maggie:
Well bridge that makes sense because you are in a very human to human type of business. And so am I

Rich:
Yeah, like

Maggie:
Your business is all about human interaction. I mean, we’re going back to like, I remember one of our earlier episodes like when you were talking about Why you created storied? in the first place is because like you wanted to be different than some of the other coffee places that didn’t have that like personal connection to people and like that’s that is one of the core reasons and one of your core values of storied coffees, like asking people their names and getting going to a point to get to know them and like recognizing them when they come in and like building that human connection with people which we can’t get from an algorithm. Like if someone’s going to be Getting a coffee from their favorite coffee shop. Like they’re they’re not there’s no way they’re gonna be able to do that. like without human interaction and at least not yet.

Rich:
Yeah,

Maggie:
You know, I mean, we do know there are big companies with apps where you can generate your order and then it’s just there for pickup when you’re ready. I’m not talking about that but like the whole so I’m not surprised to hear you say that like You know that you you prefer more of a human interaction I do too and I think I think that goes to the point of this article is like most people prefer a human interaction then then a commute computer. Algorithm. Yeah. There there was a study done. Well, the whole episode is called algorithmic aversion. Yeah, and we should we you know shouting them out. They were on the management Lab podcast. It’s their very first episode. And the they talk about the study. For which showed that when an algorithm made an error people were more reluctant to want to use that algorithm then over when a human error was made they still preferred the human. and even as the algorithm became more accurate throughout the study participants chose to side with the human predictors. I don’t really know much about the study. They didn’t really go to deep into the study. But basically it was a I think it was a study done at MIT and you can correct me if I’m wrong.

Rich:
I don’t know either they do they name like The reference the this cite the studies but what they’re mostly doing on these episodes is talking about the like the findings.

Maggie:
Yeah, and

Rich:
Analyzing the findings a little bit

Maggie:
And said people expect other humans to make a mistake. They don’t expect algorithms to make a mistake or they’re less forgiving what an algorithm makes a mistake and I found that to be interesting because that’s the case for me. I’m like, oh I don’t know you kind of you have more you have more of a leeway or forgiveness with a human when they make a mistake. Then you do with an algorithm yet. The algorithm was created by a human. Yeah.

Rich:
Yeah. there’s I think that’s that’s definitely an interesting and interesting dynamic. I’m kind of thinking through like the different paths we can take when we as we talk about this all this stuff and I think we’ve I think I’ve said it a lot of different ways. And so, you know, if I were outlining a conversation about AI I think this is how I would do it. I would say like I’m really intrigued by the fact that I love the that these guys use this language of algorithmic aversion because I think that is really core to the conversation about AI from top to bottom no matter what Realm you’re looking at it in I think that because it’s new because it’s unknown but also because of the the Dead the Dynamics of what we’re talking about. There’s this there’s this like fearfulness or just reticence shout out. It’s a reticence as a word throwback. there is this like just keep it at arm’s length if I can kind of approach to AI until I don’t know we understand it better and I love that that’s true. And what those guys are doing what you’re kind of getting at is like everything points to the that thing that that everything points to we still prefer Humanity. So again, if I’m outlining the conversation I’m saying hey isn’t interesting that we’re all actually kind of a verse to this idea of these robots doing all of our work for us. And then we say yeah that is interesting because don’t we prefer human touch and connection and like When it’s a human touch, I mean like literally being connected and then also like the human touch to our work and turns out we do as we study that and then where we need to go from there is like, okay. So how do we coexist with these robots? You know, and I think we talked on all of those points a little bit last week. So for the rest of today, we’ll just I think that’s my outline a little bit just as of how I think about. all these things Which I think. we’ll just keep exploring that a little bit if you don’t mind and then Kind of at the end, see what? I don’t know like the what’s the Redemptive quality? It’s like it’s kind of where I needed to go. It’s I’m like if I’m so immersed to this if people are reverse to this, why are we entertaining this idea? Do we really need to keep building these things out and then ultimately it’s like well, yeah because it’s actually gonna be probably kind of helpful and it’s not going anywhere because we’ve kind of opened the as somebody put it you can’t put the genie back in the bottle. Yeah. It’s like, okay. How do we how do we redeem this whole thing, you know? So that’s kind of my like thought outline. As I

Maggie:
Enter writing notes.

Rich:
Yeah, that’s fine. As I enter into any of these episodes talking about AI from any let perspective. I’m like, all right, isn’t it an interesting thread that all these different people looking at it from the marketing standpoint from the business standpoint, whatever. It’s like, hey, we still want that human touch and at the end of all these conversations that I’ve been listening to everyone is still like you got to maintain that human element. and leave an open door for that and in fact one of the Commerce what one of the specific conversations I was listening to was from another podcast called marketing Made Simple. Yeah, which is a podcast by story branch. which is like a Donald Miller thing related to marketing and maybe I’ve talked about in the past. I’m not sure but It’s a cool approach to marketing. Check it out if you want, but they have this podcast that. Is pretty easy listening highly practical? But on this one episode they said is AI Friend or Foe

Maggie:
So

Rich:
Very much that same kind of

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
Kind of question kind of vibe. And they were doing all the same things talking about how to redeem how to use how to view Ai and how to kind of redeem it. In the marketing realm and we spoke last week about Jen.

Maggie:
Mm-hmm.

Rich:
Well we read her her mail and she noted at the end. She’s a freelance writer. You know, she’s a little like Forget the word she is but just you know anxious about what what is all what does this mean for her? And I think a lot of people are asking themselves that question and this particular episode. Of the market in a simple podcast did a great job speaking to that fear of particular people who are in marketing who are in freelance writing and to work with other people whose livelihoods depend on people hiring them to generate content, right? So someone

Maggie:
Yeah, you could argue that my staging business could be threatened by digital staging and Yet full episode.

Rich:
Yeah, right.

Maggie:
I shouted out box brownie, which is a digital or AI version of staging.

Rich:
Yeah, but

Maggie:
I know that that doesn’t take the place of being in an actual room with beds with tables with couches. So like I personally don’t feel like my staging business is being threatened by Ai and other companies who offer like digital or digital staging options, but that could be a good example of like, a job being threatened and this whole idea of is AI a friend or Foe and you may not like this answer and but like I don’t it’s not that black and white to me. I’m not I think there’s a lot of gray area. I’m operating in a very gray area.

Rich:
Yeah, I don’t know if I disagree. With that notion that

Maggie:
All areas of my life.

Rich:
Yeah. Well, I feel that I don’t think this is clear cut at all at this point in time. It I think I think it might be easy to look. On the surface like it’s like it’s clear cut right because until you start looking at it and start poking holes in it and realize how flawed the whole thing. Still is you know? Until you get close enough to see all the all the cracks in. Yeah, you can’t you can maybe come away with the sense that like, oh, no this stuff’s coming for me. It’s so powerful. It’s take it over everything. Right but it’s like no dude. You got to look at this thing. It’s It’s you know connected connected my hand to my the bottom of my leg.

Maggie:
Okay, let’s go with the argument that it is. AI is coming for you and AI is taking, you know place of like a lot of human jobs.

Rich:
Which don’t get us wrong, it probably is.

Maggie:
Yeah

Rich:
In a lot of ways that I am doing this this I’m less in touch with that data to like where are the places where this stuff is. So successful. It’s booted people out of actual jobs. I know I’m sure that’s happened and probably a lot in the text space and whatever and so that is not something I can speak to but

Maggie:
Yeah, so, okay, let’s let’s again take that argument that it is. Okay. Not to be like harsh. But so what? I mean wow, so what it’s That’s the reality of the life. We’re living in that’s that’s what I’m saying. It’s like it doesn’t matter if it’s Friend or Foe. It’s like that’s the reality. Of of this life like things evolve and change like how many jobs were replaced? by like evolving Technologies in an over our history exactly. like we can just take simple journalism for example going off like the writers like newspapers radio television YouTube I mean I’m not gonna go into it, but I do I have a friend. I have a couple friends who are in. journalism in local news and It’s really tough to keep a journalist at a job right now because it is the hours are hard. You have to wake up early to be on site. It’s unpredictable. So okay again, I might be going off on a little tangent, but just like please just pay attention for a second, please Maggie tangent. So like okay, like do you really want to wake up at 3 AM and Chase a story for like no money, you know and you’re locked into a contract and you have You know, and I’m not I’m not talking about a specific news organization talking about like

Rich:
That career

Maggie:
The that kind of career, which is where what I’m familiar with because that’s what I studied in school,

Rich:
Right? That’s

Maggie:
Where I first got a job when I first graduated so I am speaking of this topic with a little bit of experience. Although I haven’t been in that world for a few years. But I but my friends who are still in that world like it’s a grind and you have to and there are several Even in our own Market in in the capital region of Upstate New York there. I know of several journalists and reporters who have just completely gotten out of that industry all together because of how difficult the grind is and because of The Changing Times. But they are finding ways to evolve their careers by creating. Social media platform. I mean if you want to think about AI in terms of extremes, I think that’s how people tend to view a lot of things generally in life is through extremes like you’re either totally adverse to it and you’re gonna avoid it and not even think about it. Yet you still use Amazon. You still use Google Maps. You still use Spotify. You still use like all these other things which have ai in them. or you can be like the opposite side of the extreme and be creating like fake content using like AI generated images and you can create a whole blog tomorrow. Of content that you didn’t have a single. piece of written information that you did yourself so That’s why I say. I operate in the gray.

Rich:
Yeah, you’re somewhere in between there.

Maggie:
Yeah, because I don’t look at AI as a friend or a foe. I look at it as a tool just like all these other evolving. means of technology and social media.

Rich:
Yeah. Well, I think that’s a healthy perspective to have. For what? It’s worth me saying like

Maggie:
I mean even sorry I interrupt, you

Rich:
Know, go ahead.

Maggie:
Oh. Even in the real estate industry a couple years ago my broker introduced this. digital platform, which if you’re not just like the two second version of the way real estate leads work like If a real estate agent, there’s many ways that a real estate agent can generate clinical leads. They could pay for zip codes on Zillow or realtor.com and like anybody in that zip code that searches for a home Zillow will send them that lead and then there’s like, I know Dave Ramsey has like a whole real estate leads. You know, you pay Dave Ramsey for leads there’s all sorts of programs and things out there where they’re like, we’ll send you real estate leads or whatever. Well a couple years ago my broker tested out this leads platform where there was a digital assistant that was attached to these leads and this digital assistant would text and email people as your assistant. So a lead would come in. Let’s say like they saw a listing on the internet and they clicked on the lead and it brought them to this like funnel site and a funnel of you know leads funnel. That’s what I’m referring to and The person interested in seeing the house. like they want to see the property so they fill out the form on the internet and then their information gets captured into like our database then the quote unquote digital assistant who’s completely computer-generated. Would reach out to this person and say hey, I’m Maggie’s personal assistant and I’m what what can I help you with? Can I help you with some information and that digital personal assistant would extract information and speak to this person as a human being as my assistant and say like, oh I can let me talk to Maggie and let me see if like she can get you set up with a showing but this house has three bedrooms two bedrooms. Like it was just kind of like have a conversation like a human being with the human being and then like I would get a notification that would say like you got a you got a lead name rich, and he’s interested in seeing this house and This is his information and pre-approval or whatever like go for it. And so like a lot of people in my company like found success using that but in the end it wasn’t it didn’t replace. The human connection that actually connecting with someone like me would do.

Rich:
Yeah,

Maggie:
So in that sense Like, you know, that was a newer technology several years ago before Chachi. BT was even on the horizon but things like this have existed for many years before now and they are evolving and I do think there’s ways that they can improve our life what I love a digital assistant. Heck yes that like would make life so much easier if I had somebody who was like sending invoices for me and responding to emails for me and stuff. But like I haven’t figured out sophisticated way to replace me yet. So until then, I’m not super worried about. like my industry although Never Say Never, I know I know the real estate industry is changing dramatically. If you read the news you can learn about it.

Rich:
Okay. Well stay tuned for next episode Maggie talks about all the ways that the real estate Industries changing dramatically

Maggie:
And

Rich:
Rapidly.

Maggie:
Yes. I mean

Rich:
All Realtors are going to be replaced by robots.

Maggie:
Yeah, but

Rich:
The by the end of 2024 totally line, although that would be an interesting thing to hear you speak on is different ways that you are seeing your industry shaped by AI or just other other things because that’s your area of expertise.

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
No, that’s A great perspective. That’s great perspective. I actually think now that you say that I wonder if I recently I recently went on a website for a listing. a commercial listening a business a restaurant space and I got I got a text from someone who wasn’t the listing agent, but it like walked me through some stuff. It could have been a person I had a name. They

Maggie:
Started my digital. I voted my digital assistant,

Rich:
But I could have been talking to a robot and didn’t even know it and then the listing agent did personally reach

Maggie:
Out. You probably were talking to a robot right

Rich:
Crazy, dude.

Maggie:
Because they probably introduce themselves

Rich:
Didn’t

Maggie:
Even hi. I’m Sally. I’m

Rich:
Pull that up. But

Maggie:
Yeah. That’s what that’s what we use

Rich:
Later.

Maggie:
Yeah, please do

Rich:
That’s cool. That that was Capital really Capital Realty or something. I don’t know if you would know what those people are using about. Needless to say I didn’t buy the building. But yeah, it was a good deal though. Pretty sure it’s good deal. So, all right, you’re you’re making you’re making good points as usual. You know, I think that’s We’ve kind of been saying the same thing at this point. I don’t know if I don’t know if we’ve said enough about like what AI is and what AI does not that this is the podcast for that like maybe we can if if we get a chance to write a description on this particular episode, we can like link that up the podcast like we’re texted you kind of yeah link our references for this because those are really informative for understanding Ai and generative Intelligence on like a broader scale a little bit more like the nuts and bolts. How does it work? And you know, how do we understand what it’s doing kind of thing introduction to the topic. That’s what I listen to a lot of to prepare for these conversations, but funny enough as we’ve had this conversation twice now, I find myself just kind of Going to the same places with that, you know. Which is like how do we relate to it? How should we relate to it? And and then maybe more specifically like what can it do in our businesses? I don’t know what it can do in my business other than on that marketing front, you know, there’s really practical ways that it can go into your business. but you know until I want to be replaced by robotic arm that just sits on a counter and like makes your drinks for you. I don’t really know how to to replace. making coffee with with a robot, you know.

Maggie:
Hmm,

Rich:
There’s there’s different ways to. And then I don’t what I don’t know the difference too. Well, maybe I do I think there’s a difference between like using an app to order ahead and cutting out that like time taken to talk to a human and wait in line kind of thing. That’s different from yeah AI, you know using Ai and and that’s that’s a digital tool or platform for me to get like speedier more efficient service and still get the same product. That’s gonna be made by you physically. It’s just like gonna cut out some of the features of that experience. What about that artificial intelligence. So there’s great things.

Maggie:
What about this? What about Like you have a coffee shop storied coffee and you have certain supplies that you need to keep in stock. Like coffee. What if you had a like smart shelf or smart fridge that was linked to your Amazon account or your Restaurant Depot account or whatever and it was like Rich, I noticed you were low on decaf espresso. So I added it to your car and it’s going to be delivered tomorrow. Would that make your life easier?

Rich:
It has the potential. that that platform has the potential to make one’s life easier.

Maggie:
I’m smirking. I know you cannot see my face right now. I’m smirking because I’m giving the come on are you kidding me face because You are one of sometimes one of the most like scatter people I Know Rich you are you really are and I know for a fact that something like that would make your life easier if you didn’t have to think about it anymore. Yeah,

Rich:
That’s a great. That’s a great system to be honest. Something like that could work exceedingly. Well,

Maggie:
And I think that’s the future of that’s how AI can improve our lives. I don’t think an AI is going to replace you the shop owner or Abby or any of your other Baristas. There’s no replacement for a human interaction, but wouldn’t you love to not have to run around every Monday and Tuesday to all these different restaurants stores to pick up supplies. Wouldn’t it be great if you had like an AI system that could make your shopping so much easier and have it delivered. And you could have more time to do other things that you love.

Rich:
I mean I have to say yes. but the caveat is that when you run when you’re when you’re in a position like me where you have to pinch pennies to put it to give you a way to think about it.

Maggie:
Hmm.

Rich:
You have to have the whole system. Workout and maybe it would maybe it would right because time is money. Okay.

Maggie:
So

Rich:
If you want to go that route, then you could you could kind of argue it that way but When you have stuff delivered it costs more than when you can go get it directly. And so it’s a bigger equation than simply This so, I’m not in other words. I’m not saying no at all to yeah that sort of system. That’s a great. application of AI But from the boss small business owners perspective to give you a reason why someone might have a hard time adopting something like that or adapting to something like that is like it’s not it’s not as simple as plugging and plug and play with with a tool like that. You probably have to buy the software first of all, Or the Plugin or like whatever like to bring that system in. then it’s going to take the time to sync all of your inventory and stuff with it because there’s there’s always gonna be some kind of like startup process right and then you got to balance the costs. of having stuff delivered versus picking up yourself.

Maggie:
So

Rich:
Maybe those things like come out and those things are washed in the end and it is kind of like you save time you save. You save stress you save money. And if you can just make that front end investment. Yeah, then it’ll pay off. So maybe that’s it. But I’m giving you a reason why someone like me might be a verse to some like that it’s because it represents a huge obstacle that I’d have to make up time or like sacrifice something else to come up with the resources to be able to implement a system like that. Yeah,

Maggie:
And

Rich:
That includes County for how I’m gonna Sustain how it’s going to balance out and sustain long term, you know, so whenever there’s like a good idea or some cool feature. that can help a business or small, you know could help a small business like often I think people struggle to implement those things because their cost prohibitive

Maggie:
Right,

Rich:
Whether that’s Financial cost or time cost or whatever. So to make that to make this whole thing really practical to a small plague on the small business perspective, right? This is why corporations they just the rich get richer. It’s like they’ve got that economy of scale kind of thing in their favor they can. Some of them are literally the ones developing this technology. Yeah are these These businesses, you know, so anyway, yeah, I think I think that’s that’s a good point. But it’s like how do how do little people latch on this stuff like that?

Maggie:
That that’s a great question. How do the little people latch onto stuff like this and like I’m not saying we have the answer right here right now. If our audience does we’d love to know that would be a great like follow-up email or something to us. I don’t know. I don’t have the answer. How do the little people? Latch on and take advantage of these. these systems and and that’s that’s a bigger question for another time.

Rich:
Yeah, I think. Because you could you could ask that question. You can ask that question a hundred times about 100 different things for your business. There’s so many great resources out there for any business at any time. And it’s like well, why don’t you have this? Why don’t you do this? It’s like bro

Maggie:
Mm-hmm.

Rich:
I just I just can’t I just don’t right now and tell you don’t have it in me.

Maggie:
Do you use? like Amazon lists, or do you do you use like Siri or like a Like hey Alexa, add this to my shopping list or hey add that. Do you use that in your or is everything on paper and pen or your hand?

Rich:
Nailed it. I was you you got there before I could but I have a Sharpie in my pocket.

Maggie:
Literally your hand says soup and big letters right now.

Rich:
Yeah.

Maggie:
So

Rich:
Don’t forget to order soup yesterday.

Maggie:
You wouldn’t have to write on your hand. If you had like a you know, here’s digital,

Rich:
Right? This is not where I saw this conversation going, but Siri has never been worked for me. And I don’t have the time to figure out how to make Siri work for me. It’s like Siri. It’s like it should just work

Maggie:
Add soup to my grocery list.

Rich:
Hey, Siri. Add soup to my grocery list.

Maggie:
Thank you.

Rich:
Yes.

Maggie:
Okay, I edited.

Rich:
Okay. Now we’ve got a pop of here says reminders at the top. Yeah, it says grocery with a little bubble for soup.

Maggie:
Mm-hmm.

Rich:
And a button that I can press this says change, but I watch I don’t think I’ll change it. Okay.

Maggie:
It’s in your Reminders app.

Rich:
Okay. So now I have to adopt now. I have to develop a whole new system where I open my phone and look at my reminders app.

Maggie:
You don’t even have to open your phone.

Rich:
Hey, Siri. Remind me to check my reminders app. Okay. Thanks. Now I have a new reminder on my reminders app. That’s a bubble that says check my reminders app. That’s not that’s not exactly what I transitioned.

Maggie:
How many times a day do you look at your phone?

Rich:
Countless countless

Maggie:
Times. Oh, I’m not trying to be like What’s the word like? You

Rich:
Want me to form a new habit?

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
Yeah, because that’s the way

Maggie:
That’s the way I think it’s

Rich:
What you do now.

Maggie:
That’s that’s how I think but like I mean this this conversation is is definitely not over but I just think that sometimes we as humans make life harder on ourselves than we need to and I think there are great tools out there that can help us. And that’s why I say like I operate in the gray. in all areas of my life

Rich:
Yeah, I definitely. Don’t disagree with you. I think I think there’s there’s probably deeper things that go on in our lives too when it’s I think it’s a mindset thing. I think there’s

Maggie:
More

Rich:
Sure mindset stuff that goes on where it’s just like look this is I’m on my grind. All right, and I just I grind it out and I just make it work for sure. I’ve got my systems and they’re like the way out the way that they work for me. And I’ll never be able to scale or like get on top of this thing. But I’m just resigned at this lifestyle which which works for me, you know, that is a mindset. That’s a mindset thing and you have to have a reason to break out of that which I do. I have a lot of reasons to break out of that kind of thing. But like the whole workaholism deal just just trying to like make it happen the way you think it needs to happen rather the way like it should happen, you know working harder instead of working smarter. Is a mindset. So you’re not wrong, dude, if you’re calling me out, then

Maggie:
I’m calling you out.

Rich:
That’s a that’s fine. But yeah, it’s it’s

Maggie:
I’m I think this is especially like such good timing for me because of this life transition that I’m in right now. I bring it back bring it back to our conversation at the beginning. It’s like hashtag mom life, you know, like trying to make the most and like that’s not even like I’m I say that with like quotations and like kind of like with a smile because You know this I’ve no experience at all whatsoever. So But I’m oh, I’m trying to think. Okay, how can I still make the most of my day now that I have a 12 year old living with me and how can I make my life easier? And I want to make life smarter not harder, especially if I am now an example to this kid that’s living with me. Yeah. That’s a great question. And that’s very much a part of their life right now

Rich:
Like

Maggie:
There. They don’t know. a life without Chachi BT and AI

Rich:
Yeah,

Maggie:
So if I’m going we gotta know it it’s not going away.

Rich:
That’s that’s an angle that we are that’s an angle. I didn’t expect to explore this from is like Parenthood and and how

Maggie:
You know me neither to be honest,

Rich:
Right? Right, exactly, but that’s funny. It’s like we have to understand these things. We can’t afford not to understand anything

Maggie:
Exactly

Rich:
As parents

Maggie:
Exactly

Rich:
In the world because our kids are gonna be growing up with this stuff. And ever more presently, so I

Maggie:
Want to know more about it now than I ever have because of the situation. I don’t even want it’s not a situation. It’s it’s it’s a privilege because of the privilege I have to have a kid now

Rich:
Yeah, well, okay. I’m gonna start a new podcast

Maggie:
Now. We’re not starting a new podcast.

Rich:
How’s coffee at home?

Maggie:
And again, I this we can talk I’m fine like talking about like kids stuff. I’ve never been opposed to that. Obviously Oliver’s amazing your son and but like I just you know, this has been something we yeah, so

Rich:
Yeah, it’s a brand new

Maggie:
Dynamic brand new Dynamic but also like it just because I want to also say like just because there’s a kid in in my home now. Does it mean of all the sudden had these like, you know Revelations about it? I just think even more I’m like, oh, okay. I maybe maybe I was a little bit indifferent to it in the past but now and like, you know used some of the useful tips and and tricks that were available to me for my business, but even more so now I’m like, oh I gotta I gotta know more about this stuff because It’s affecting multiple areas of my life now. Not just my business. Yeah.

Rich:
Yeah, that’s that’s a great Point. That’s a great point. And I think I will okay you you may stay in about image statement about how you know now how can you make your day count?

Maggie:
Yes. Yes. Yep.

Rich:
When because there’s there’s other people. Who your time affects now,

Maggie:
Right

Rich:
And specific ways?

Maggie:
Yeah

Rich:
And Also because

Maggie:
I can’t be making dinner at 8 o’clock at night anymore.

Rich:
Yeah, right exactly. Exactly. So and I’ve been asking myself for the last nine months the same thing as like, how do I like I take all of our two Restaurant Depot with me on Mondays because Monday is like my day with them, right and I’m just like, how do I Work all this together, but also, you know that when he was born I had to take three months away from the from storied. And I was like, okay can this place exist without me? And the staff at that time were amazing and made it happen. So yeah. but also You know say how do we make everything shifts everything shifts for?

Maggie:
Yeah

Rich:
For different reasons.

Maggie:
We still want to make money.

Rich:
Yeah need to

Maggie:
At the end of the day. That’s that’s never like we’ve always been transparent about that. It’s like our businesses exist to make money so we can live our lives, right? Yeah,

Rich:
Turns out turns out. So one of these days mine will do that probably

Maggie:
No and you’re on your way.

Rich:
Yeah, yeah. 2024 it’s the Year. Sorry before we’re coming for you me and the robots.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
Dude. Well, I got to wrap this thing up for the sake of time. But

Maggie:
For sure

Rich:
Dude, I like talking about this stuff. There’s so much good content on this. I feel like this whole this I could talk for a long time about all the different things. But this is the first episode we really researched heavy for because it was a topic we didn’t know anything about but wanted to talk about we’ve done that. We’ve kind of like a taken that approach in the past but not as in depth. I listen to like 10 podcasts it’s how this conversation and that felt enriching and Everywhere I look there’s a new every newsletter. I subscribe to or every like everything I listened to now is like or every podcast has subscribe to everyone’s got an episode on AI at this point, you know, it’s the kind of thing. It’s not going anywhere. It’s always gonna be kind of in the in the atmosphere now, I think you know a lot of takeaways take what you will from this conversation because we covered a lot of ground but I think at the end of the day. The what I gleaned if I was gonna summarize all the podcasts I was doing I already did it. I basically already said I’ll say it again. The AI tools are can be really great tools to enhance creativity to maybe start the creative process in areas that you’re stuck. There’s a lot of different things out there to Get you going and get stuff flowing for your work. Really whatever you have going on. There’s probably a tool for it and some of it’s free. I don’t know about things that cost money because I don’t have that but the key though is to not let AI like be everything but rather to take it and and kind of elevate it with your own personal touch bring your personality to bear on it. Bring your You’re like creative. lens to curate or just like cultivate the the product that is given offered to you by Ai and it’s like a good maybe way to think about is like hey, I can be a great rough first draft for a lot of things you have going on but It might need. to be bearing down or or corrected or just like made to work

Maggie:
For

Rich:
You and at the end of the day this is this is the other takeaway from all those podcasts for me was that There is going to be human aversion. So like if you are offering stuff to your people to your clients your customers your community if you’re offering stuff, that’s kind of like. AI generated they are going to want to know that it it had your hand on it that it can ultimately came from you. You ultimately made the final decisions about it. Like people don’t want this is was like the result of all these studies people don’t want AI generated stuff at the end of the day.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
People want human generated stuff and even if you give them AI generated stuff they want to believe It was human generated. And so you you kind of need to do that for the greatest success in your in your work. Yeah. However, you’re using it. Yeah, that was my big takeaway from

Maggie:
It’s a good takeaway

Rich:
From all of those things, but we’ll I want to get you all that list of those episodes because I think you would come away with the same. You hear where I’m coming from and how I developed these thoughts based on a lot of threads of conversation that different people are having

Maggie:
I think we can end it with something you said before we started recording which is humans aren’t going anywhere.

Rich:
Even though they’re going anywhere, dude. So

Maggie:
Yeah, but AI tools are very useful and you should embrace them.

Rich:
You heard of here first.

Maggie:
Alright. Love you all later.