39: Let’s Talk About Australian Coffee Culture

Intro:
Hey, you’re drinking house coffee – unfiltered conversations brewed at the intersection of real estate life and coffee shop service. We’re Maggie and Rich – local business owners and friends sharing stories and welcoming you to pull up a chair with us. The door’s always open. Let us pour you a cup.

Maggie:
Test test Oh wow. He might have a haircut coming out this week. I heard you had a haircut. I actually saw that’s it on her already. shoes no time wait like yesterday. like Oh, that was my last haircut. Oh, that was your last. Yeah eight weeks ago. I got a scheduled the next one for the first time ever. Oh, that’s the that’s that is the least amount of time between haircuts that probably ever had my whole life. Shout out to get us that’s amazing. Yeah. So what your haircut was today or what was yesterday? Gotcha. I can’t tell because you’re wearing a beanie I know. Yes, sacrifice style. Yeah. for warmth Are you a swiftie? What do you think? I think yeah. I have tickets to go see her in October. I’m not gonna ask how much you pay for those. I didn’t pay for them. That’s amazing. Brandon paid for them. Yeah, he won’t tell me super cool. I was like don’t tell me. Well, I wanted to tell you about what I was listening to recently, please which is I found. An NPR tiny desk. Oh, it’s so good. You know NPR tiny desk. Oh my God, it’s so good. So I randomly found the Taylor Swift episode of that which is NPR tiny desk. It’s a cool thing because everyone has to do the same thing. So like the horse songs, like I got a they got to pick him right? It’s like this tiny little corner you ever watched the T-Pain one? No, I haven’t watched a lot of them. Oh my gosh, you gotta watch the T-Pain one. Yeah, but that’d be cool. And that’s the thing. It’s like it’s like any like huge name Person down to some like really Indie people all in the same little corner of this room very iconic and and it’s totally stripped down and like intimate on the show The Crowd a lot and the Taylor video and so many people in that tiny room, you know, yeah, it’s pretty cool. But for me, that’s the kind of performance that I like from someone like Taylor Swift who has just so much of such a huge spectrum of music and and so I’m reading approach but like at the end of the day, she’s just a singer songwriter, you know, and so she you get to see that someone should watch that again. Yeah, you get to see someone’s true like kind of Nature and performance and you hear the stories behind the song so it was I don’t listen to a lot of Taylor Swift not that I don’t like her just like in fact I’ve been meaning to lately with some of the new stuff that’s coming out. But that was a cool little thing. That was like, all right. This is how I would relate to this kind of thing makes this person related to to me for my taste. So Taylor Swift’s only two years younger than me, and so thinking about that like Her I grew up with her music. Like I was in the same phase of Life Taylor Swift as she was right writing songs two years younger than you. That’s and yeah, and she’s like So yeah, I think I’m right right wrong kind of like similar age. I was thinking I was not that much older than me. Yeah, you know. Yeah, but like there’s famous performers who are much younger than us, too. Yeah. But she is still reaching audiences of like 12 year old girls. Yeah. Which is those to show interesting shout out to the swifties? Yeah, man. That’s what you’ve been listening to but yeah, I heard that recently and I thought about sharing last time but wanted to tell you about this time. I love it. How are you? I’ve been listening to a course that I purchased and was a part of it was run by Maya Nicole and she has a Instagram Maya Nicole and m y a and i c h o l and she’s an Instagram expert and business coach and she has a podcast called radical disruption. And the course I took was called autopilot Empire. Now, let me ask you a question. Have you ever? seen an Instagram post or reel and they’ve said type this word in the comments and we’ll send you yeah links. Have you ever done it? Like have you done you’ve typed the word and two weeks ago? Yeah. I forget what word it was probably coffee related. Yeah. So this was a course where she was teaching people how to do that. Yeah and kind of like toying around with the idea like of Shifting my business and what I want to be focusing on this year. I just have a lot of things up in the air and my personal life in my business and I don’t like inconsistency and I don’t like not being able to predict things. So I’m exploring different options with like my social media and just seeing like I want to really once and for all like dig deep into that. Um, the thing is I just have to make a decision, but I was taking this course to see if it’s something that I wanted to. Dive into like go the social media. Yeah. Business. Yeah, Instagram business. Yeah. Yeah. All right. yep respect Jerry still out. Yeah, well. Right, there’s reasons for and against that yeah. I mean, there’s definitely a business model there. That is yeah, you can see the pattern and if you follow a lot of these people which you know, I I have seen a lot of that stuff over. I mean I’m putting things into play like I have my team now, I have my real estate. Person, I have my staging person and those two people are good friends, and we all work really well together so far. So I’m just gonna continue to pour into my team and grow their skills. So that welcome home. Call can also grow yeah. So wait. Yep. Well that is a that’s that’s exciting stuff. Even if it’s so out of questions and limbo stuff, but it’s like That’s cool. That’s cool. Yeah, yeah. what are we talking about today on episode 39 so We’re gonna talk about Australian Coffee Culture. And Reiki gosh, and here’s why over the last couple episodes that were dealing with my Realms specialty coffee and and things like that. If if you’re just tuning in we’re kicked off season two a little bit ago and what we decided what we realized was we kind of have two podcasts in one. So we’re going back and forth weak for now where Maggie will do an episode related to her stuff and to like Realty and staging and her business and then swing back over to me and I get to just soapbox it up about coffee. So that’s been a cool thing. But we have a lot of parallels in our businesses and lives and and kind of a shared friendship. So it makes sense to kind of just have these conversations go back and forth on these topics and we gave ourselves these challenge this challenge this year. We each grow in the others realm at the same time. So like while Maggie doesn’t work in coffee or Or necessarily dig into specialty coffee quote unquote the way like I do or TJ. Or other people that story she’s still a storied fan and is adjacent to this kind of Lifestyle because of just being palpable with us. So and I have to learn yeah, and I know nothing about real estate and staging other than what I’ve heard from Maggie. I’ve never owned a home never sold a home. So that’s kind of all new to me. So we’re challenging each other to grow in our appreciation for what the other does and just to learn more about that whole thing. So that’s a little ketchup because in like six episodes in yeah this one right? So that’s kind of what we’ve been doing. If you notice the pattern just calling that back out so a couple episodes now I’ve talked about coffee and She talked about specialty but kind of like I think a lot about why. the like local Call Capital Region. Yeah coffee scene is so underdeveloped is the word I would use we’re really. We’re really kind of undeveloped in our area even as a foodie culture. Okay, so they’re like where where is the lack there? Because when you look at other parts of the world like Europe, but in particular Australia you find that in New Zealand, although I didn’t I was pretty looked in Australia, but Australia New Zealand, they’re kind of like neck and neck with this kind of stuff with in particular with food culture Cafe culture and in particular like espresso coffee culture and you find that Australians. They just take it for granted. It’s just it’s just what they just part of their culture Just Coffee espresso now, it’s not to say like anywhere. That’s every Australian is drinking espresso, you know, or just drinking straight is breast. So in fact, one of the things that was interesting to see was that it’s largely a milk beverage. So like like espresso with milk like lattes. Yeah particular. It’s like the go-to Australian beverage and what is a flat white? Oh we can get into that. In brief a flat white is kind of like a small latte. It’s not quite like a cappuccino in that it’s not as foamy in texture. It’s a bit thinner more like a latte but usually a smaller drink now if you want to get technical about it, which I do it has a ristretto espresso shot typically, so it’s got a more intense coffee flavor. But again, it’s a smaller drink and it’s got less milk. Is there strato a larger amount small like restricted ristretto versus lungo should be a long longer pulse. You take the same espresso. Yeah, I’m just trying to or you see those at Clarity for Starbucks. Yeah, so, yeah, so There’s a lot that goes into how we approach espresso how we make espresso. But I didn’t want to touch on a flat wise actually because they’re the staple beverage of any Australian cafe or coffee bar. And you see them on American coffee menus, but you are usually not getting fly away a traditional the story. I did not even on my menu it never has been. Because I knew the difference between an authentic flat white. and like the small latte or cabbage, you know that were actually serving, you know. So I don’t want to get into the Super particulars like that because we don’t have a ton of time today. I want to just talk a little bit about the difference like where did Australian Coffee Culture come from? Where does it come from? Why is it so developed real, you know in relation to the US which is which is I would say specialty coffee is kind of kind of still in its infancy. In the US in the US. Yeah, although depending where you look there are regions where it’s it is a little bit farther along a little more developed. So frankly, this could be a big topic and and I can do a thorough research report on it and maybe I will for another episode but this one I was mostly just wanting to explore this question a little bit more. Why is Australian Coffee Culture so much more developed? What where is the US by comparison and like what’s that Gap? And what would it take to fill that Gap? How would we bring things along a little bit so that’s kind of what I wanted to okay shot about today chat to you about sweet. Yeah. how did you know did you know at all that Australia had this reputation for for coffee before like I started talking about it? I did not know it was Australia. I but I did know that when I think of good coffee, I think of Europe, okay. Because that’s where I’ve had my personal experience where I’ve had really good coffee. Cool. Espresso base stuff. Yeah. Okay and you spend some time South Africa? Yes curious. Yeah, that was like and yeah that was like 10 years ago. What was so coffee in South African Now versus 10 years ago. I mean in the US coffee now versus ten years ago. That’s a difference. I don’t know enough about South Africa, but did you were you in a coffee then at all? Yeah, go to Cafe as well, like well largely the coffee cafe experience. in South Africa and in Europe was like a Dine-in and experience. Okay, and no there’s actually a store in South Africa called. Woolies or Woolworths and they have like a cafe. It’s like a department store with a cafe inside of it. Yeah, and it’s like a big part of like shopping is like also at least when I was there 10 years ago when I was shopping with my friend like you go to woolies and then you’d also get coffee. That’s cool and It’s it’s like a sit-down experience. It’s not rushed and there’s nothing’s really a takeaway. everything about Coffee Culture when I was there was all about like long long sit Downs comfortable seating and like no paper cups. Everything was just ceramic ceramic Yeah. In Europe one more table service. Yeah, no counter service really know there was counter service and woolies and Willie’s. Yes. But you take it and you sit at your seat and you drink you don’t take it. You know, you’re not it’s not to go. Yeah got it. You’re gonna say something else. Um, I was gonna say in in Europe. my Experience was with Lavazza coffee and they have they would have like espressos. I remember in Bulgaria. I would go to shout out to my friend Mellon who like brought me around all over the place and was we were hanging out together Buds, and we would always just get like little tiny cardboard espresso shots of Lavazza coffee and we like take them and drink them and enjoy them and it was like there’s a that experience alone having coffee in Europe. Was just kind of ruined me honestly good. That’s really cool. Yeah, you know, all right that gave me this thought that gave me this thought maybe it’s not that America doesn’t have the US in particular. It doesn’t have a Coffee Culture. Yeah, right. It’s just that our coffee culture is so it’s it’s different it. Yeah, it shows our values convenience Wick serve cheap. Um, you know customizable. I’m thinking of the drive through again. The Duncan’s of the world or or Starbucks is kind of known for not the cheap part but like Starbucks is known for all those other things super sweet, right not an emphasis. So we have a Coffee Culture because I mean people love to get coffee. I love coffee. I think American Coffee Culture is very focused on iced. Like the Blended drinks take like Frappuccinos unintended and he hey, I just got that like the iced coffee is the iced macchiato is the cold Brews. All of that. I think American culture is very much focused on cold coffee drinks. That’s really that’s an interesting observation slash potential Insight I had and they’re all take all that much about that. Yeah, and they’re all yeah drank. We’re calling it which is funny because that’s the European. I know it’s yeah like when they ask you they’re like, is it for here take it away and then you know, yeah. Yeah, it’s take away. You’re kind of just kind of giving you the evil look like you’re way dang. Well, okay. So what’s really interesting so you’re right. I think that’s a thing. That’s a good point. So we value convenience convenience. I hadn’t considered the ice versus hot and how that sort of reflects our values slash feeds into the value that whenever I’m watching a video. Of somebody making fun of an influencer online all I like they the first thing they’ll do is they’ll have like an iced drink and they’re like swirling the ice around in the glass because it’s like it’s a very like American thing to do like yeah, I will say swirling it. I strings are are often more aesthetic. I mean apart from latte are You know, it’s hard to make a hot coffee potentially look as as good or or photography, you know photogenic. Yeah photogenic as a as an iced drink the way I mean even things go even people at home make iced coffee in glass jars like pretty glass jars with Like fancy straws. I think it’s all about. Aesthetically aesthetic aesthetic. Yeah less than like how it tastes. Yes, you know because I watched those I watched those videos and I’m like dude that can’t take that good. Well, I think a lot of people Most people don’t drink their coffee black. So you and I are a little bit. On on the at least for Americans I’d say like you drink your coffee black as far as I know. I drink my filter coffee. Yeah a drip coffee. That’s what I mean. Most often. Okay, we’re talking about me two different but I really people like their drinks light and sweet sure hot. What weather is hot or iced? I think you’re I think you’re right and lattes reflect that, you know caramel swirl caramel. Drizzle Mackie you said macchiato, which is yeah. So all these kind of flavored drinks and then you get dunking and going until like the Girl Scout cookie flavors, so right that’s all reflected their and that’s so yeah, so that’s one end of the spectrum. That’s one of this and the Spectrum and that’s what I I have a taste for it. I don’t want to knock it. Right but I want to understand it. I understand where it comes from. I want to let it occupy its space but my hope is just to move people over time move people just like a little bit farther down the Spectrum or just move along the Spectrum a little bit. Um, you don’t have to just stay over here. You don’t mean you can that can be your end inspection. But like let’s let’s see what’s going on. Like it’s a whole Spectrum, you know, let’s check out a little bit over here in the middle or or let’s go off to the end here and have some of that fruity coffee. So yeah, that’s that’s where I’m coming from. Those are interesting insights to reflect on in the American culture. Australia Coffee Culture really fascinating really fascinating. Um, let me from the top give my my sources here. Okay, so if people want to go and do further research, they can just take this list and go read it for yourself and I’m making a note to link this article in our show notes Okay, so problem is that this is a New York Times article which may behind a paywall for you, but sometimes you can you can hack it or just subscribe for like a dollar a week for the first year or whatever. Yeah. All right. So this is called migration and experimentation colon. What led to Australia’s Coffee Culture? That is by Yann. Shuang From November of 2021. Yep. and That’s great timing to be talking about Australia’s Coffee Culture because it’s deep in the game. It’s been around for a long time, but that’s only a couple years ago. So these are still relevant super relevance. There’s a lot of links in this article to other. things or Json to the to the concept as well, so That was my first article, then there’s another article that I popped up open called Australian cafes arrived in New York. Meaning the city that was from July of 2014. Oh, yeah. Which was interesting to read through all of her strand is the article author on that one. So those are the two main articles that I read and then I just kind of clicked links back and forth. I started out actually on Wikipedia with this Australian Coffee Culture just the Wikipedia article on that. It’s so developed as its own Wikipedia page. That’s crazy. Yeah, and what what else have you ever been to Australia? I have not but now my bucket list. Oh, okay. Okay, and then fifth wave I’ve talked about the fifth wave podcast okay in the past and so I did a little search on that. On that podcast really digestible episodes from them. There were two main ones one was Coffee Culture in Sydney. Highlighting Sydney Coffee Culture, and then there was another episode on Melbourne. So highlighting Melbourne Coffee Culture and those two fifth wave podcast episodes are were other sources of Insight for me on this little topic, and I’m just starting there. So um rather than like walk through any one of those things in particular, I’m just just gonna just gonna give some insights and maybe we can get back and forth a little bit on it. Okay on time. So starting with that. Article. Well, the first thing was that I didn’t realize Melbourne is considered like Arguably the epicenter. of specialty coffee and whenever someone’s gonna make a claim like that, it’s Up For Debate. But as you kind of read into this and you find the Articles and you hear the podcasts Melbourne really does seem to be the the place where all of this starts emanates from and there are different reasons for that but what seemed to come to the four was like this sense that there was already a fine dining culture. in that City and being a very like you’d hear them reference the CBD the central business district. So I mean city has something like that but you have a lot of cafes and restaurants and things like that in this area. So that was inside number one for me was there seemed to be this like pre-existing just in general appreciation for for food and fine dining and one of the things that you find as a difference between Australian cafes and like American cafes. Is that emphasis on food? So if you go to Australian influenced or Australian bass Cafe is like say around New York City the closest one to us that I know of that I’ve been to is called Village coffee and goods don’t know if you’ve ever heard me talk about it. Yeah, shout out to them. They’re in Kingston. We’ve been there handful of times. The owners are definitely Australia and that shop. If you want to flat white drive to Kingston, okay Village coffee and goods. Okay. They have a sister store. Also in Kingston. It’s called Village Grocery and refillery. that also has a coffee bar in it and a small Cafe, but it’s also got like like a No Supermarket, but like a local market kind of both are really beautiful spaces and really cool Concepts and run with a lot of love and passion, but you see a lot of those Australian cafes Staples. Represented their things like words like brekkie b r e k k i e that is very Australian way to talk about that kind of offering in a cafe. And so you’ll see that on the menu. Like I said flat whites are there. But down to even the cotton when when Village first opened they had a coffee roaster in there called Toby’s estate, which is in Australia and coffee roaster that had cafes in New York City. But which in the last couple years? Broke off and kind of like chain rebranded. So there’s still Toby’s estate in. Australia butts now it’s called Partners in New York City. So they carry Partners. But again, it’s just all these little Australian influences as part of the Yeah, the village experience there and I have been to New York City by I don’t know that a particularly been to any. Cafe there, although To my credit. I was already following two of the four. Australian cafes that were named in that second article Australian Cafe has come to New York, so I thought that was cool. For further research if you want to look up these kinds of places, Bluestone Lane. Is an Australian Cafe that has multiple locations in New York City, Bluestone Lane. I was already following them and then there’s another place called two hands. Which I didn’t realize was following them. But I was thinking them. Yeah, I didn’t remember them but I was poking around the patient. There’s another place called Brunswick. Which I was not following and then little Collins. Which I was not falling but those are four four places named in the 2014 article about places 10 years ago. Yeah, I know exactly so it was just starting to like come over to Toby’s estate was pretty existing. So they had already been there. I’m not sure when they were when they came to to New York City or came to the States. But what were you doing 10 years ago 2014 I was like He was doing Ministry. I was I had been married for a year and I was contemplating going back to school which I did in 2015. So interesting something like that bouncing around moving All Over Albany. In 24 getting into coffee in 2014. We took a coastal road trip. We flew to Seattle and we drove down highway one as far down to Monterey it was so fun and I went to the original Starbuck’s us which is like that’s why I bring it up. Yeah, it’s because I got I went to the original Starbucks. I have a photo of myself in front of it. I didn’t know that I didn’t know you had been there. Yep. that I bet that would be a cool experience. Yeah, it was it was crowded and it was kind of like You know people were just there to like get their souvenir. Yeah. Yeah, they were there. I’m sure. I but super fun if I’m not mistaken Starbucks was founded in 1971. That’s the year. I have in my head or like it was in the 70s. I’m pretty sure or 77. It’s like one of those one of those who could easily look it up, but we’re not was it by Howard Schultz? Yeah, I believe so. Okay. So he was a long time CEO. Yes, so that is interesting to mention though because We are talking about specialty coffee quote unquote being in its or third wave coffee being in its infancy. But one of the regions that is known in the US for being a more developed Coffee Culture would be the Pacific Northwest. So Seattle is a huge coffee City arguably the American coffee Mecca if you will. And then you have like Portland, Oregon or a lot of ya areas. Those are probably the two biggest and then you go down the coast and go to LA or certain certain certain California cities. Yeah, you’ll have a bit more of a developed foodie slash. Coffee Culture as well here is so those are all things we could we could talk about here’s an interesting inside. I’ll mention on that one a lot of those movements. And places where there’s been a bit more of a developed Coffee Culture is a result of like immigration. Yes slash. diverse cultural influences from food and that was cited as one of the reasons why Melbourne kicked off as the Coffee Culture that it did so you had one of the podcast episodes was comparing Melbourne versus Sydney in terms of their Being different even though they’re both Australian, they’re different cities. And so you have different cultures different. Influences and so one of the reasons it’s thought that Australian Coffee Culture is so developed in Melbourne is the Italian immigration that took place post World War Two so late 40s into the 50s. You had the first espresso machines which were a relatively new invention around that time. So first Express machines coming into those cities in particular Melbourne, and that’s where it kind of began to take root. I think it took a few more decades from there again based on what I was reading and hearing due to like racism and other issues, you know kind of resistance to sort of that that just outside influence new influence, but over time you you had that kind of take root in those places and the other thing that was said was people being such a diverse place people don’t have a lot of like Like Old World Traditions or things that they’re stuck in that they have to always do things a certain way versus like like Europe versus like France or or Italy which have you know centuries of tradition and food and culture. And so things are going to kind of go in one one way, but I don’t I think it was the article. I think it was that first article that we talked about. Saying how like we have more. diversity and so we don’t have anything we don’t have as much that we have to be beholden to so we can we can play with things and so there was like after a while Maybe the 80s 90s there was this willingness or just interest in? Pushing boundaries around coffee and being willing to do new things with an exploring new flavors and really experience. what it has to offer so that just happened kind of organically as a result of the cultural mix in that and that in that area, but all so happens sooner than it has happened. In other parts of the world namely the us so that was interesting. So think about and makes sense. I mean, yeah, what made me start thinking about it what reminded me of that? Thought was like you think about the Bay Area and you think about the Asian cultures and influences that are around there would would the K towns and Chinatown and I’m thinking about Bobo culture, which is kind of my other world that I don’t talk that much about but I’m I’m almost as immersed in avoiding saying steeped in but why Steve’s in I had really really good boba in Japan. Yeah. Like amazing right super strong like the tea flavor. Yeah, very strong and even to emphasize concentrate. Yeah. Yeah, that’s that’s cool. That’s like world. Yeah not to get off topic, but that’s that is like No, it is a whole nother world and there are a million different boba. Flavors and combinations and right and approaches approaches. Yeah, that’s where I that’s why I stopped myself because I was gonna say something about powders versus taste, but then I’m like actually it’s more traditional to do the powders. For reasons relevant to Asian culture. Yeah, so, you know, I don’t knock. anything that goes on but it’s it’s interesting to reflect on but when you think about a more developed area Uh, when you think about an area that has a more developed food culture foodie culture. You see often just diverse influences and kind of crossover things and like but it’s clear to trade you could kind of trace it back to see where things and ideas and yeah some flavors come from yeah. And it’s interesting because in in other parts of the world. if you want a drip coffee you have to order an American coffee. Whereas if you just order a coffee, you’ll get espresso. Yeah. so when I was you know, I would say that’s particular cultures. Let’s say Italy but where and Italy France Germany. Yeah, like all those places. It’s like the menu will be specific like at least with places that I’ve been the menu will be very specific about like, you know, your cappuccino your flat white your your coffee and then American coffee. Yeah, which is like a drip basically pour over watered down version, right? Well, some people will know that’s where the name Americano is said to come from is like American and that’s a soldiers that stomach the espresso the strong coffee. They had and yeah, it’s it’s a espresso with steamed. Wouldn’t have seemed it’s an espresso with hot water, right? Yeah water down with hot water. Yeah to call the Americano. So that’s yeah, that’s funny to hear that that they would. They would so okay. That’s interesting because you’re getting it the the traditional European cultures, right? You’d find that in very okay by contrast if you were to go to a more specialty or third wave. cafe coffee bar in so in these same places, you would probably see a difference of you would see filter coffee. They would probably call a filter coffee versus drip coffee and because of the way we’ve started to appreciate drip filter coffee black coffees for their again inherent characteristics that can be really nice. We started those even in these more traditional. cultures so if you go around in England, maybe not around but if you go to like again, the Metropolis kind of place is he goes to London you’ll find I know less about France or Germany per se but but there’s gonna be Maybe less developed third wave modern Coffee Culture. Although there will be coffee shops everywhere that have the more traditional espresso base, but like strong. kind of I still think that in terms of Coffee Culture Europe is way further ahead than we are here in the states. I Am interested by what you mean? I’m interested in what you mean by just the like there’s well you experience which is which is great. Yeah, there’s less of a takeaway to go culture there where like Coffee is meant to be. enjoyed and savored and like even as you mentioned, it changes flavor as it cools down and It’s it’s not meant. to be watered down. Yeah, you know, right. And I that’s what I mean when I say that Europe. Is ahead of the States and its Coffee Culture? They’ve got all over Starbucks has made its way around the world and there are tens of thousands of locations. Yeah. all over the world one of the busiest Starbucks in the whole world is in I think it’s called Shibuya square or Shibuya Corner in Tokyo, Japan. and I’ve been to that one too. I was just like I’m speaking and it’s like it’s the one of the busiest Starbucks in the whole world. Yeah. but I think and but I did read an article. and in preparation for our chat today about Starbuck’s failing in Australia, really because It when it when Starbucks opened up in the early 2000s and Australia it was. Popping up locations like all over the place and basically what you would in the US. Yeah, like it would in the US. but because Australia had already established its Coffee Culture the specialty coffee the number one Starbucks grew too quickly for the pace of what I think Australians were consuming. And the drinks were too sweet. So like the the types of drinks that were offered like Frappuccinos and macchiato and you know seasonal pumpkin spice lattes or whatever that like people here like yeah start drinking in August. They were you know, they were as warmly received in Australia because it they’re just not. part of the Australian Coffee Culture according to this video and the last the last part of the video was that because Australia’s culture is rooted in. Sitting down and taking your time and the culture of like enjoying. the coffee and Starbucks is very much a takeaway to go type of model and people and Australia were in like taking you know, they they didn’t need a to go. They weren’t consuming coffee in that way. Yeah, and so there like a lot of their locations had shut down and they are still I think Starbucks is still in Australia, but the people who go there are. Tourists because it’s familiar. Yeah, and I mean like so Starbucks is more of a tourist location then a place to go. Yeah on a daily basis. They total sense. I mean fits right into the narrative were yeah, we’re kind of tracing out here. I barely go to Starbucks anymore myself same and I would have said there I’ve been the last time I had been to a Starbucks was years ago except for I had coffee with Candace this week and we were meeting in a central location and we just I just picked a Starbucks that was close to where we both had to go and it just happened to be that but before then it had been probably a year since I had been in a Starbucks. People are always surprised when I say I when I when I talk about that I say go there or when they see me there. Yeah, which is you know, it is rare to be to be frank but it’s convenient. It’s a place to sit. I can always plug in a computer. Typically Wi-Fi is good. And you know, I kind of know how to hack the menu as maybe I’ve talked. Yeah, I know how to like get something that resembles. Yeah a microphone. Yeah on top of my lots and how to up the string and reduce the sweetness, you know, so it you work with what you got but no shade too. Yeah, no shade to Starbucks and hey specialty would not be where it is specially in the US without Starbucks because they really paved the way they really pioneered that whole third place. Kind of concept like a place. That’s not home. It’s not work being go hang out have a casual situation do what you want to do with a cup. But like you didn’t listen you’re not home. Yeah, they really were the first ones and it’s kind of like bring coffee into the customizable. yeah, you know thing that it is for us today, so And and offer nothing Starbucks used to be a lot more specialty because ironically it was born out of Italian Coffee Culture when Howard Schultz had gone to what was in Milan or he had gone to Italy he experienced the European Coffee Culture people gathering around that and wanted to kind of capture some Spirit of that and bring it back here and that’s ultimately how Starbucks went in that direction and they used to have lawn mower Soco machines braces used to do everything by hand. Like we would today at story or or similar shops and they’ve they’ve moved in favor of automation just because of how they’ve scaled the business. They their roots are you know and Specialty their roots are in. The same place that I’m gonna be so that’s interesting to think about. Well, honey, closing thoughts. I know there’s a lot to there’s a lot we could say. I think I think in summary specialty coffee in the US at the long way to go. It’s interesting to think about how the dine in. Cafe culture Is largely where? You see like European and Australian cough like coffee cafes that really favor that and I think we don’t really have so much. There’s a huge separation between your coffee bar your Starbucks type Vibe and you’re like table service restaurant, but I think the Hallmark of Australian cafes is that they marry those two things really nicely. The food is usually very high quality very thoughtfully crafted just as the espresso and the beverage is are going to be as well. So they bring that whole thing together in a way that I think I think the US is struggles to do really. Really in a lot of places. You got some nice brunch restaurants, right but they’re not gonna have espresso bars the way that like we have just Espresso Bar, but not really a lot of of the Lego we’re not brunch sit down kind of place at the time. So bringing those things together has has long has for a long time been a Hallmark of Australian Coffee Culture that we haven’t quite seen. ourselves be able to bring it together and You know, there’s a lot to explore here as I started looking into this. Is bigger topic than I thought and it’s cool to see. Those influences so I don’t know something to give you some resources there give you some food for thought no pun intended. to explore that more because my goal is to Again, help people think differently about coffee. So see getting a vision for that by looking at other places where it already kind of exists. That’s something I’m kind of doing and I love to invite anyone. Along for that Journey. Yes. So if you have questions about coffee or specialty coffee or experience in Europe or Australia or the US with coffee. Yeah to we’d love to know and we and if and with your permission we want to share it here right here on the pod. Very rich, I got to run word. I got a to go. Take away. Later.