35: Specialty Coffee At Home

Intro:
Hey, you’re drinking house coffee – unfiltered conversations brewed at the intersection of real estate life and coffee shop service. We’re Maggie and Rich – local business owners and friends sharing stories and welcoming you to pull up a chair with us. The door’s always open. Let us pour you a cup.

Maggie:
Today we thought we would talk about coffee.

Rich:
It does make sense that today would be a topically coffee. style episode

Maggie:
Yeah in the coffee Realm

Rich:
Yes, if you tune in last time you heard us talk about how we essentially have two podcasts in one Maggie’s Realm. How would you self describe your realm?

Maggie:
Okay, great question. My realm is home staging real estate. with a focus on sustainability

Rich:
Beautifully said home staging real estate with a focus on sustainability for the people out there cool. Well.

Maggie:
Year realm is specialty coffee.

Rich:
Kind of is both specific and Broad, so I’m not gonna try to define the whole thing right now. But specialty coffee is a way of differentiating or I don’t know segmenting. Part of you know what we think of when we think of coffee and I think that’s why we use the word specialty. depending on where you see that word or how you hear it or come up against it. It could be being defined a lot of different ways. I will I will admit because you hear supposedly and some people think of oh that’s gonna be a lot that’s gonna be a like a caramel macchiato, you know, it’s like a specialty quote unquote type of Milky coffee drink maybe you’ll think of it that way, you know and that in that sense, you could think of Starbucks or Duncan as having these type of now they have specialty lattes and that’s one way to think about it. That’s not really what we mean when we talk about specialty. We’re not so much talking about. style of drinks that you might encounter everywhere or anywhere as much as we’re talking about again kind of a segment of the coffee industry and it generally pertains to the quality of the raw ingredients. So we’re talking coffee itself. We’re talking about the quality of we’re talking about like the technical grade of it. Which won’t get into we’d say that for a whole pod probably grading coffee and and point scale and how that determines. A sense of quality. But again, it’s it’s we’re talking about a really specifics part of of the coffee issue. And so I was supposed to see so I just I’m throwing that out there to kind of give a little bit of definition just at the top of this whole concept. Because you said my realm is supposed to

Maggie:
Coffee.

Rich:
Yeah, that’s right. I think I think when it comes to me. and TJ, you know, we share some of those experience because TJ works for me at storied the business that I own and you’ve been with us for several years now off and on when you’re home from college and everything as well as It brings to my day and produced her by

Maggie:
Producing right TJ is our beloved producer and audio engineer.

Rich:
That’s right

Maggie:
All the credit.

Rich:
That’s right.

Maggie:
Thank you to TJ. Yeah, it’s fun.

Rich:
So over in our realm, you know, we talk about we talk about what it means to say specialty what it means that basically like have a specialty coffee business. That’s what we’re exploring. That’s what I was born. What does it mean to have a specialty coffee business? What does it look like? What is it require? What can I give back into the world? What’s the value of it? Why differentiate that way etc, etc. There’s all kinds of ways to to examine that and turn that over and you know, how does it affect us in the coffee I’m gonna put this. In the commercial how does it get factors in the commercial sense? How does it affect us in the home sense? Right because you can brew coffee at home. Can you make specialty coffee on your Nespresso? I’m not really sure probably not.

Maggie:
Actually a great another great segue about what will be We wanted to talk about today which kind of coincidentally overlaps a little bit with the home part of it, which is like how to make good coffee at home, but we’re more focusing on. a good coffee and you mentioned espresso because that’s how I make my coffee at home with Nespresso. which For me the untrained palette. Well, okay it go for me. For like I know I just I just enjoy the taste of Nespresso and the ease and simplicity. is way better than any other type of like pod style Brewing

Rich:
So like versus Keurig,

Maggie:
Correct, or

Rich:
K-Cups as they call it or

Maggie:
Or there’s like I

Rich:
Don’t know what other paws are out there. Yeah, I had for a little while before I was Before I was in coffee as a career, I we got the Starbucks Verismo Verismo. Did you ever come across that? Yeah, I didn’t see too many of those out there. I saw one on Facebook Marketplace once Starbucks Verismo, which they were selling in their store and like 2016 15 16. And we maybe even earlier that have been 20

Maggie:
Probably a lot earlier 14.

Rich:
In those early, you know tens of the 20s and so we got that and they would serve they would sell their

Maggie:
Hmm

Rich:
Style coffee like their Christmas Blend was that was out that year or you get the Pike Place, you know, there’s all the Starbucks stuff is like in these pods that are specific to the the reasonable but the coolest part was so make essentially expressive style coffee your Nespresso. Does that right? And that’s different from Keurig?

Maggie:
Yes

Rich:
Style too, which makes more of a brood style cup.

Maggie:
My machine makes espresso and Longo.

Rich:
Okay, does yours froth milk?

Maggie:
Yes.

Rich:
It’s got like a separate component.

Maggie:
Yes, and it also has a cup warmer. That’s that’s hot. It’s yeah, it’s hot if if you could describe. Like like the milk steaming. Contraption and like and like how the milk ends up like how like, how would you describe like the milk? Look um, well I use plant-based milk, and I usually I only use that for author like Once like honestly our

Rich:
Bro, that’s the best part.

Maggie:
I know but I drink my coffee black. But if I were to use it, it’s like a separate up. It’s like a cup with a lid and then a magnetic frothing wand on the bottom and then you can do a cold foam you could do like latte foam or you could do espresso foam and it like changes the direction and rotation of the frothing one based upon what you select.

Rich:
Do you mean cappuccino?

Maggie:
That’s right. Yes

Rich:
And cappuccino.

Maggie:
Yes

Rich:
Cold foam that’s interesting take

Maggie:
I mean what I’ve done for cold foam is I just take some. Like vanilla syrup that I make at home some heavy cream and I like, you know, those like electric like things that we use for the modest childless. Yeah. Yeah. I just froth that like that

Rich:
Sure it’s not as cool decent cold

Maggie:
Foam. Yeah.

Rich:
I

Maggie:
That’s what I mean. You don’t need an espresso machine to make that I also have a $6 handheld wand that you can like use your thumb and you know froth away, right? Yeah not needed

Rich:
The point is it came with that?

Maggie:
Yes and

Rich:
Sorted my Verismo. So that sounds exactly like what I had I had this wand that came there was like a slot in the top where I would go in and come out for washing and everything and it would it was magnetic in the cup on the bottom and then it would it basically heat the milk and it’s been around and froth it to give it, you know a frothy texture for this.

Maggie:
But

Rich:
The reason we had syrups lined up on the board all and I had like

Maggie:
That’s cool

Rich:
For my pre coffee shop supposed. of yourself,

Maggie:
I guess it it, you know if we’re making this about our audience it really we should ask the question like How do they like their coffee? Because if you are someone that likes a cappuccino or likes a latte then a milk frothers definitely something that would be beneficial to have at home. And this is just my hot take no pun intended. You can you know give another suggestion, but if you wanted to make a cappuccino at home, I will you know, and you don’t have a cappuccino machine. What I used to do is put a a mug of milk in the microwave and I would microwave it for like 30 seconds. Then use the handheld frothing wand and add that to my drink. How do you feel about that?

Rich:
Yes, I have a lot of feelings about this. I love this question, though. I love this question because it’s challenging. For someone like me.

Maggie:
Which I think cappuccino on a budget I think is important. Yeah.

Rich:
All right, here’s here’s something I’ve probably said this before you got to know this about me. I’m not a snob when it comes to Coffee.

Maggie:
Mm-hmm.

Rich:
Okay, and what I mean by that is I’ll drink anything. I have I have the palette for I can taste it. I had Stewart’s. This morning flavored Stewarts. I don’t even go to staple if Stewarts doesn’t have a flavor brood. I’m probably not even gonna get their coffee. Like I’m not there for Stewart’s coffee because it doesn’t taste good. If I’m into Stewarts one is convenience. I probably got gas as well. And I’m getting

Maggie:
This coffee makes a lot of flavored coffee.

Rich:
They do they do. Yeah, so so what’s the point the point is I I know how to drink anything and I’m not gonna knock people for drinking things. Um necessarily, right?

Maggie:
Yeah. The question is how to make good coffee at home. So that was one suggestion that I had. If you wanted to make cappuccino at home, and you don’t have a big expensive machine. That’s the Dilemma.

Rich:
What

Maggie:
Was the Dilemma

Rich:
To make good coffee at home? There’s just so much wrapped up in that question, but I’m trying to go with you on this trying to go beyond this you’re approaching this from your realm and not mine. And that’s that’s a beautiful thing right now. This is a very beautiful moment that we’re sharing.

Maggie:
In my experience the Dilemma really is kind of all about money and like how much you’re genuinely willing to spend. To make good coffee at home. I equate. coffee snobbery to money like I because like everything else that’s snobbery is kind of associated with having money in my opinion in my in my experience with

Rich:
Yeah, well, how do you define snobbery?

Maggie:
Um geez, I think snobbery is defined as like something that feels that it’s better than other things.

Rich:
Okay. What if it’s the filter effectively better,

Maggie:
Huh? What if what if it’s like actually objectively better though, so but thanks, you can’t that you can’t make that assumption because it has to do with someone’s tape.

Rich:
That’s that’s right. And that’s why I find this question. So challenging. You’re totally right and and you’re on a good track

Maggie:
Actually drinking coffee black is better. Well, I so I’m not talking about the taste part of it. I’m talking about like like what Rich was talking about at the beginning of the episode like like the grade of the coffee like the quality how fresh the coffee is like compared to like when it’s been roasted that kind of stuff. Do you know why I stopped making pour over coffee at home? Why because Rich was giving me crap for using coffee. That was like past its date like I would buy coffee from storied and then I would like have it ground and then Like a few months later. He’s like you’re still drinking that coffee bro. And like yeah, I’m still I’m still making it. He’s like, oh, that’s no that’s not good anymore. You said like a month later. A couple months later, but okay. I mean Leto this wasn’t even the last year. Let’s

Rich:
Whatever you’re talking about right now. First of all, I don’t remember although I was believable. Um, and it was definitely not within the last year.

Maggie:
It was like I was like, oh, I’m not drinking it the right way because it’s it’s past its date. From when it was ground. Well, let’s rewind a little bit.

Rich:
Yeah,

Maggie:
Like I I feel like some like comparisons are necessary. Okay. Um, I think I think that’s a good that’s it’s it’s a spectrum in a sense where you know, like the older coffee gets obviously, you know, people don’t know a lot of people at least don’t know that coffee does have an expiration date not in the sense where it’ll make you sick but in in the sense, we’re like, it doesn’t like taste good anymore. I feel like yeah, the flavor drops that why you’re supposed to keep it in the freezer. Um

Rich:
He’s just trying to get he just trying to he’s trying to provoke something here.

Maggie:
I mean, that’s what my grandma used to do. But let’s let’s compare.

Rich:
That is the thought behind keeping in the freezer is keeps it fresher longer. Yeah,

Maggie:
But let’s let’s compare getting

Rich:
Shout out to Grandma.

Maggie:
Mm-hmm. Let’s compare getting you know coffee from like a local coffee shop that’s been roasted within the past one to two weeks keeping it at home ground for like one to two months. I would still say that is exponentially better than the coffee you might like in a can or like at the grocery store. I’m not gonna name any like brands or anything because I want to throw a shade but like a lot of that coffee. I don’t know for a fact but like it smells like it’s like six months or even a year old and that’s the coffee where my sister Hannah I’d like has mold. Yeah, and and like I I heard from somewhere that like you can find so much head shaking like like cockroaches in it or something because like some of like gotten into like the The grinding gear

Rich:
What are you what are you people even talking about? I

Maggie:
I I’ve seen a video where like apparently like the remains of like cockroaches or like found in some of that like really old grocery store coffee. Well, okay this podcast episode has taken a turn. Okay. but yeah, so the point I’m trying to make here is although your method of brewing coffee, you know, it might be let’s say a little more extra than Maggie’s method, but we do have to Give Maggie the leeway that. The way you were doing it like a month old it like that’s that’s still way better than like like you’re a coffee like that tastes like really old really better. I always I so the other thing about how I make coffee at home outside of the Nespresso pods is I have storied blend and I also have a decaf blend that I mixed together. to make a less strength caffeinated strength drink for my own Jittery purposes or lack thereof? Yeah. So I feel like I can drink more coffee if it’s like has a little decath mixed into it then if I just the full strength.

Rich:
Listen, alright, look if there’s some characters assassination going on right now and I just got a preserve my good name for a minute. Okay, not to make this about me. All right.

Maggie:
But you are the specialty coffee.

Rich:
I need to on record here. We got to go on record and make a couple things clear. Okay. First of all, people need to drink coffee that they enjoy.

Maggie:
Great.

Rich:
And I’m not against anyone for drinking any kind of coffee. Okay, and no matter how it was made. And I don’t want to be that guy. Now if I have been that guy and there’s a distinct possibility probability even that I have been that guy. All right. I just want to go on record and say that guy’s dead to me

Maggie:
And he’s

Rich:
Been dead to all too. Okay, don’t I don’t want I don’t want episode 2 season 2 here people thinking or which is just coffee snob guy and he’s gonna make things inaccessible for me because what I’m hoping I can help. Provide in the world is more accessibility around better coffee.

Maggie:
I love that.

Rich:
Okay, so regardless of everything that was just said for the last 20 minutes in this podcast. We could scrub it all and start right from there and say look I’m not here to yuck. Anyone’s yum.

Maggie:
Mm-hmm

Rich:
What I am here to do. is challenge the ways we think About coffee,

Maggie:
Okay.

Rich:
And taste in coffee I very much agree that this that good. or even better those are matters of of taste and and our ultimately on the ground level subjective things. I do think and I think a better word TJ and friends would be technically better because there are things that are technically higher quality technically better what I mean by that is coffee I think if you talk about comparisons think about it like as wine, right it within wine you have Somalia is you have people who objectively know how to define the tasting notes and the components and qualities of like a glass of wine based on its style based on its region. It’s age Etc. There’s all these things that go into into wine. There are other alcohols that are in this realm obviously probably food components as well coffee is actually more complex than Wine. And

Maggie:
You heard it here first

Rich:
While the tea would be another category probably. while coffee is less developed and more ubiquitous than Wine. In a sense that there are far more people drinking. There are far more people drinking coffee then wine. Maybe maybe not actually. I should don’t know if that I don’t know about that one. That would be interesting a little bit of study. But what I mean is You know wine is ultimately reserved for people of a certain age. Hopefully versus coffee is a little more widespread. You’re also drinking coffee more often than drinking wine. Hopefully depending on your lifestyle, right? But I think so. Hopefully that makes my point what I meant. But

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
So coffee is something we kind of take for granted. And I’d like to challenge that way of thinking coffee is not something that should be taken for granted. in a lot of senses and you can really start to think about it in the ways you can think about something like wine or craft beer or whatever. There are technical specifications to certain aspects of that product. That objectively speaking you can draw lines around. whether a 95 point Geisha coffee roasted to Perfection brewed up by a world barista champion to technical specifications tastes good to you. Or not is an open question.

Maggie:
Got it, right.

Rich:
But that doesn’t mean there aren’t objective truths and reality is about what it should be tasting. You just need the pallet possibly for that. Right? And the more you it doesn’t even actually matter how much you know about that coffee because you could still just not have the taste for that product

Maggie:
And that would just you might not like coffee. You

Rich:
Might not be a coffee drinker. You might not like caffeine or can’t have caffeine or whatever you might love caffeine can but you see what I’m saying,

Maggie:
Right? So

Rich:
What I want to help us do is just realize like we take coffee for granted way too much. Way too much in this world. And I think that is what contributes to so many of the problems that I see in coffee and that I see in I mean Commerce so

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
Okay, that’s my Soap Box. There’s your coffee break.

Maggie:
How does someone make good coffee at home then?

Rich:
How does someone make coffee that they enjoy at home? We have some tips for you. I think TJ’s cluing into a very important one which would be use the freshest coffee. You can get your hands on to a point and what I mean by that is there’s a window of opportunity with

Maggie:
Coffee pause for a second and and just say like you know part of this don’t be afraid to like put out there what you think is good coffee, because like I think that’s what’s also part of the about the shows like I’m gonna have opinions about style home style and Trends paint colors and stuff and I’m going to say that’s ugly or that’s whatever so like I want you to also feel free to say This is good. This is bad because it’s your opinion whether or not somebody might think it is or it.

Rich:
Okay. Thanks for that. I will consider I’ll consider that but my point again is to Make things accessible got it. So if I hesitate to share a strong opinion around something that I understand can be subjective. It’s only because I don’t want to alienate. someone possibly with my opinion That’s why that’s my caveat to your caveat.

Maggie:
Okay,

Rich:
That said I would say TJ was talking about freshness of coffee. And that’s a really Key thing I would expect that the Folgers you’re getting and that’s been. I presume. Freshly roasted and ground and then sealed up like within a certain time frame. I mean those guys are they’re building a business. I’m sure there’s quality controls, you know, so that should seem pretty fresh. There’s gonna be a difference between your freshly opened can of Folgers and the canis been sitting in your your pantry for eight months, you know, you’re gonna taste the difference. I’m sure that because that’s that’s how that product goes. Goes over time. It’s exposure to air once coffee is ground the shelf life. diminishes

Maggie:
Exponentially and because of the okay possible. Can I can I insert a tip then? So if somebody is going to make coffee at home,

Rich:
She’s all put in your freezer.

Maggie:
No. don’t grind all at once

Rich:
Thanks, perfect.

Maggie:
Right a couple matches

Rich:
I mean the key here is you’d want to grind it as you need it

Maggie:
Grinded as you need it.

Rich:
Yeah, if possible.

Maggie:
Okay, right coffee from story or someplace like it’s not the best idea to have the whole bag ground and brought home unless you’re going to brew the entire back. But but then it relatively short amount of time, but then it becomes like a weighing of options accessibility as Rich was talking about like like optimally You want to buy? A really nice grinder for your coffee the Mr. Coffee grinder works just fine. I I don’t know anything about that grinder, so

Rich:
Don’t give me those.

Maggie:
I think I’ll take your word for it. But you know, like I I have probably whirly blade I have a barot. It is a whirly blade. I have a barazza Encore.

Rich:
Yeah.

Maggie:
We also use those in the shop for like well when when The Vibes are good we do pour over.

Rich:
Yeah,

Maggie:
But I I purchased that well, no, I I received it for Christmas a couple years ago and I use that grinder for my pour over. So I I’m lucky enough to be able to buy whole being coffee and grind it as I need it, but I am now facing the Dilemma of how I want to make specialty coffee at home. As I do in the shop that isn’t just like a cup of coffee. Like I want espresso. I want lattes. I want cappuccinos. I want a flat white like I want all of this stuff but that is so difficult to achieve at the grade of which I’m trying to achieve it. Yeah. With the budget of a poor college kid, right? So like I I could do a pour over no problem. So what are some things that you’ve done to like try to do that? Yeah, I mean Over the summer I was talking with my buddy Nick from Arthur’s and he gave me some good recommendations on more affordable, um methods of achieving that at home. I have I have a stovetop milk steamer. I think it’s by a company called Bellman. I think they’re called in a sense. It has a chamber where you place cold water and then a chamber of air above it. You see it completely and you put it on the stove top and the cold water creates a lot of steam and and by the handle there are a few holes like start spraying steam out when it’s ready and it has like it’s like a steam wand much like like a commercial grade espresso machine would have and it has a nozzle that you can turn to let the steam out and it steams really well. I I made some some really good. Latte milk the other day with it, but I could only make a Cafe Ole with it because I cannot make good espresso at home real quick. What’s a cafe Olay a Cafe. Ole is a cup of coffee that you pour steamed milk. Usually latte type steam milk, not like that. She knows as opposed to Espresso. Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s like a cup of coffee with just email on top innocent. Okay, so that’s what I was making when I was talking about my microwaved milk handheld frother. I was making a Cafe Ole. Those are good. They’re really good.

Rich:
Well This is literally doesn’t matter but yours yours adding that to brood.

Maggie:
I was adding that to

Rich:
Brew coffee instead of you’re an espresso pods or whatever,

Maggie:
Correct?

Rich:
Okay. Well, it could go either way. So yeah, I mean, yeah technically speaking. That’s that’s the name. We’ve given to brood coffee with,

Maggie:
You know, I was just trying to Espresso paint the Picture for the what you were yes talking about. Absolutely. Um, yeah, the the latest challenge that I’ve approached is. The best and most affordable way to get espresso at home. My my friends recently obtained an espresso which they brought to my apartment and it would make Nespresso all the time in our apartment and I tried it. Personally for me and and what I like I found it to be what type of Nespresso was it I don’t know. It’s like red and plastic. I was like what how were the pods like that with were the pods like like three quarters of an inch in diameter or the pods like an inch and a half in diameter? I cannot tell you that man. Okay, and it is one espresso coffee. It’s yeah, it’s it’s like that and a little like, yeah, that’s yeah, that’s not that’s a different type. Well, it’s Nespresso but it’s that is like there’s two different types of nespressos and two different pods, and I’m not going to get into it, but I don’t know hold on the spread. I don’t know if what you have so there’s no those Nespresso pods are like smart pods where you have no control like you put the pod in and the Machine just does what the Pod tells it to. Do. You can’t control the amount of water or the intensity or anything like that. Whereas like the machine that I have which is a little bit older you can you can start and stop the drip like mid flow and like change the intensity, okay. That’s pretty neat. Yeah, it’s really cool. I like that. Um Recently I oh, you’re fine. Totally fine. I I actually I really appreciate the education. I didn’t know that Nespresso had that capability. Um, I I really purchase. Well, I I over the summer. I purchased off eBay a flare espresso. maker, I’m not gonna call it a machine because it’s it’s very mechanical a r e

Rich:
I r

Maggie:
FL a IR Yes flare espresso. I have it’s a manual pump situation. Right? Yeah. It looks like it’s like a big lever. Um and It doesn’t have like a traditional like portafilter that you usually have with like the commercial grade machines that you see in shops it it has almost like a cylinder like this. Yeah you put and it gives you a little tamper that you can Tamp. It’s shaped specifically. like the one that we have at the shop, it probably would not work or it because it’s it’s um, and and then Thing and then it has a almost like a plunger. that you place on top and a plunger Lever up. At hot water. Okay top of the Dress. Oh. Goes down with the lever. Pressure is pushing the hot water through the coffee grounds to make the espresso. Um, I’ve explained that in the best possible way. I can um in a nutshell it makes or so they say specialty coffee great espresso. I have not personally been able to achieve that with it yet, and I’m kind of in the process of troubleshooting it honestly the The biggest problem that I’ve approached with that so far is the grounds. I that’s what I said. Yeah grinder can’t no

Rich:
Do what in these your grinder can’t quite make no

Maggie:
And fine enough no

Rich:
Enough or even even enough.

Maggie:
I I watched a James Hoffman video on the flare when I was like first researching my options have had to make good espresso at home or technically good as we’re saying now, I he really seemed to like the Flair especially for the price point. He actually used his baratza Encore for the espresso grounds funny enough. He said it was decent my findings or that and I I obviously, you know, like I would prefer like an actual espresso grinder and all I have right now is a hand grinder. You know what I see at a state sales all the time. They are like aluminum like they kind of look like a little mini miniature percolate

Rich:
So mocha pop.

Maggie:
But they’re like mini. They’re maybe like Four inches on the top and maybe like a little bit on the bottom and like there’s like little components that go inside of it and they’re in like a lot. I think a lot of Italian kitchens have

Rich:
All the mocha pop

Maggie:
The mocha. I’m okay.

Rich:
Yeah,

Maggie:
Not like chocolate mocha. Thank you for spelling

Rich:
That I’m Sure, it comes from the same route.

Maggie:
And then the other thing I see in the same kitchen. It looks like in it looks like a miniature French press. It’s literally also maybe five inches tall and it’s got the same little wand that a French press wand would have and I’ve seen someone make froth milk in them. What you do is you pour milk in them. And then you just bring the wand up and down really really fast and it like froths the milk and you make with the mocha. the mocha the mochabot pot you make espresso in that it’s like a little percolating espresso maker and then you make your froth milk in the like miniature French presser, and that’s That’s a version that’s a version that’s I have actually experimented and in French press and it’s not that expensive. You can literally find them at estate sales.

Rich:
You’re You’re you’re making a good point here. You’re clearly into something. You’re clearly into something, which is that. there are ways to make drinks that resemble those you’ll find in your local specialty coffee shops.

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
But when you have developed a taste. Through the experience of those drinks made at a professional level. Then what you can generally accomplish at home is often not going to cut it anymore. And that is the curse the TJ and I now bear

Maggie:
I would say me more than you because you have the marzocco mini at home. I did I did it’s

Rich:
Not really at home. Now. It’s in it’s back on the pop-up circuit. Gotcha, but there was a time in our parental leave and Oliver was born when we we had a full-on espresso

Maggie:
Set up at home. And that marzoco mini is like I would say if I had the larger budget. That I

Rich:
Hear people.

Maggie:
Yeah, that would be like my dream machine for at home.

Rich:
Maybe hold on. Hold on. I’m

Maggie:
Just this this is so perplexing to me because I

Rich:
Don’t drink lattes.

Maggie:
No,

Rich:
Okay. So what words talking about are milk-based. espresso beverages that we go and routinely spend anywhere from four to eight dollars for

Maggie:
Sometimes 12. because the people who have the

Rich:
Equipment that make those drinks in the kinds of shops we go to can achieve a certain texture to the milk at a certain temperature that plays very nicely with a certain style of espresso brood coffee. That you just can’t match at home. And until you have the taste for that. You might not care right?

Maggie:
That sounds like

Rich:
To me want to spend that amount of money. But it’s like anything you can drink a Coors Light and you can drink an IPA. I feel like IPS actually don’t care that much but IPS, you can drink a nice lager from Wolf Hollow Brewing and like the choices. The difference is clear. Can I give you a better comparison?

Maggie:
Well, you just kind of sound like you’re contradicting yourself a little bit because you said earlier in this like just like 10 15 minutes ago that Like you’re trying to provide. More accessibility to coffee but how is a $12 latte accessible to everybody?

Rich:
I would not pay twelve dollars for latte. He said sometimes I

Maggie:
Yeah, I that’s that

Rich:
Is actually rooted in the espresso.

Maggie:
Yeah

Rich:
Cost. Not that yeah.

Maggie:
It’s like it’s I’m talking like a six to eight dollar espresso double shot in the latte which makes that so expensive and that is rare friendly just say

Rich:
You’re spending that amount of coffee on espresso. You’re not putting milk in it

Maggie:
To me that too. Making coffee more accessible at home. Doesn’t equate to creating. Eight dollar lattes at home Like it just doesn’t seem like

Rich:
Those are different things, but I think I think the point we’re making here. And

Maggie:
Like to someone like me who’s not a coffee snob. I mean, I don’t like Stewart’s coffee, but I Okay, I think in terms of my coffee snobbery. I think the only thing I would really turn my nose up at is Keurig. everything else I would probably drink But if I wanted to make like I have a like I am someone who has attempted to make technically good coffee at home by using a French press by using a frother. I have a Nespresso coffee maker. I also bought a Melita coffee like one of these what are these things called?

Rich:
Pour

Maggie:
Over this device

Rich:
For

Maggie:
Overtime. So like I am someone who is trying to make good coffee at home and be have it be so like

Rich:
He’s never both

Maggie:
Right now. And then now you’re telling me to even achieve that I need to have a thousand dollar espresso machine hold

Rich:
That thought

Maggie:
Is that

Rich:
I’m not talking about you. I’m talking about TJ.

Maggie:
Okay,

Rich:
You’re saying that I’m against you when all I’m trying to say is I’m defending TJ, right?

Maggie:
Okay,

Rich:
His taste what he’s trying to do at home. You’re actually downplaying and trying to say but it doesn’t have to be that way. But the thing is he can’t it got it has to be that way because that’s okay expects from I

Maggie:
I get that now because I apologize and that’s for that misunderstanding. Yeah, that’s you are listener right now. I am The Listener right now who’s like you’re

Rich:
A segment of our listeners?

Maggie:
Okay.

Rich:
And we love that.

Maggie:
I’m happy. You’re all here. Trying to be more accessible.

Rich:
Yeah, totally but I’m and I’m in the middle because TJ is the other end of that spectrum of listeners who are like,

Maggie:
Oh

Rich:
I care about no. Okay. Sorry, that’s not even the right way star that off because people do care and I don’t mean to say that they don’t you care and that’s very evident. And that’s where I love about the fact that we can have this conversation. There’s five dude. I’m the season isn’t gonna be great and I’m like riding this line. This is cool because I’m riding this line. I’m like, I’m trying to embrace the magazine of the world who who actually do like a good coffee experience, right and the tjs of the world who literally work in especially coffee shop more than two, especially coffee shops

Maggie:
And

Rich:
Want to replicate as close to that like highest quality that they know exists and love coffee experience at home and You know, that’s a different. There’s a different style a different level that each of you are trying to achieve at home and there’s gonna be a full range of styles that people are trying to achieve or experiences that people are trying to achieve at home based on what they have experience before based on the tools at hand and the cost and all kinds of things. Which is why I said at the beginning, I just need to drink coffee you enjoy for TJ. He’s not going to enjoy microwaved milk that he frogs with his hand frother. He’ll try it. And if that’s what he’s got settle for, you know, we’ve already we talked about what we’re willing to settle for here. But settling is not the same as like achieve achieving what you know is possible and if you can kind of figure out the shortcuts to do the best you can Compared to what? You know as possible in a way you can afford to do it like that’s gonna be That’s the real journey now. So I hope that clarifies that

Maggie:
Does clear.

Rich:
You know, I’m not trying to say what TJ’s trying to do is what everyone needs to do. Even the Flair. I mean, would you 100 bucks on the thing

Maggie:
150 hundred? So

Rich:
Yeah, those aren’t you either right get that at home depending. Um, so anyway, I’m just putting that out there for clarification. Again his character assassinations coming in hot today, but I’m here. I’m here. I’m here for it. Yeah.

Maggie:
I was just direct quoting you.

Rich:
I’m just clearing up. I just wanted to clear up that we’re dealing with a spectrum here. We’re different dealing with different perspectives on something and I’m trying to say where Jesus coming from but TJ, he could speak for yourself because

Maggie:
Yeah, so I mean in terms of the coffee lovers pipeline. Um, I have been spoiled. I skipped so many steps. I like I I literally my so my first experiences were with coffee. We’re at the beginning of high school in our high school. We were blessed enough to have a little cafe ran by the give program in our cafeteria that would serve coffee up until like

Rich:
Midday. Like a dollar a cup CJ. I went to the same high school about 12 years apart.

Maggie:
Okay,

Rich:
So they didn’t have that when I was there Mama I’ve heard about it and I think it might have stopped with covid but that so sad that that was a sick time.

Maggie:
Yeah that carried. I wish that I was there. Yeah. No it I loved it. Maybe I can resurrect it. Um in a sense it also ruined me because it would be like a dollar for a cup. If you brought your own cup, it was still a dollar. I had a giant tumbler probably like 32 ounces. That I would pay a dollar and they would fill it up to the top of the give program.

Rich:
By the way. It was like a chair. It was like it was a service based organization that I think was unique to Scotia Glenville, but I really wrong. I mean it’s called the governors Initiative for like volunteer something or

Maggie:
Whatever but also a means for a lot of people in National Honor Society to get volume,

Rich:
Right exactly. So there were all kinds of programs that you that people could do related all kinds of things. They had like animal shelter one that I did when I was there and I I literally started one with TJ’s brother. Yes dude’s brother was a freshman when I was a senior and I started a program that was about picking up trash on the grounds. I forget what we called it, but your brother was was one of the only people who was like their most of the times but anyway, yeah, so as a volunteer service thing so the dollars I don’t know where they went. But basically it was that’s why I was so cheap.

Maggie:
It was donated that

Rich:
She was donations.

Maggie:
Yeah

Rich:
Going not the school wasn’t making money off. It kids were making money off it

Maggie:
And it was like like a mini not-for-profit being ran within the school. Yeah. Um, so that was like the beginning of my coffee experience it took forever for me to even like black coffee. It took a lot of peer pressure from my dear friend Micah who grew up working like on a farm at like four in the morning so he would just take shots of espresso. Okay? Yeah. I miss that guy. I just a date for his wedding actual freaking well, I’m very excited. Anyway So eventually I just started drinking black coffee due to peer pressure. Um, and I started to like coffee from there. I like I care I got home, you know and then covid hit. Go to crawl and beg to this guy for a job because I had nothing to do with my time. And he was all like you like washing dishes and that’s where all started and from there. That’s when I became a lot more spoiled. I just I I jumped from Keurig coffee. to commercial grade specialty coffee made fresh You know and and like I skipped all the stages that you’re currently in like I never had an espresso. I never thought of all these ways to froth milk. I never did any of that. I just I just went to work. That’s just a Creator in me. No, and I I admire that that’s awesome. And I’m somebody who likes to try lots of things. Yes. Yeah. I I have definitely tried a lot of things at home when I’m trying to get a specialty grade coffee. I am the type of person who wants to get. coffee snobbery for Less real

Rich:
Respect.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
But he’s more of us. Not than I am. And I’m gonna go on the record.

Maggie:
Am I really?

Rich:
I don’t know. I’ll figure

Maggie:
A lot of that season too

Rich:
Coming.

Maggie:
Oh, I guess my my question is and I just thought of this so please bear with me.

Rich:
I like the coffee lovers pipeline. That’s that’s good imagery. I’m gonna work with that.

Maggie:
What is our takeaway or if you will what’s something that somebody can Take with them to go. I like

Rich:
That stop.

Maggie:
Um I would say. coffee and the coffee pipeline is very deep. It has a lot of layers to it. There are so where can they show start? Many things that go into coffee I think where they can start.

Rich:
I’m gonna answer about unless you finish

Maggie:
Here. Um In terms of Education, I think going down to your local specialty coffee shop and just talking to them. That’s it funny. He started where I was gonna start, you know, like like obviously like, you know, if if there isn’t a line at the door, but and and from there I think the best thing that you can do at home to make good quality coffee. It’s not espresso. It definitely probably would be a pour over I I would say get your coffee from a really good roaster a roaster that is also known for selling its coffee fresh. Or if a roaster a local roaster like let’s say somebody lives in a rural area. They can go to a could they get like like a coffee from like an independent or like small family like a Whole Foods or something, you know and I mean like I mean Uh, there are plenty of really good. really decent I would say like coffee purchasing opportunities online Okay. I I received an Onyx Coffee advent calendar. For Christmas this year. It was really awesome on x o n y x. Yes.

Rich:
They’re motto. Is that really? Sorry, not stuck over,

Maggie:
You know, you’re fine. Totally

Rich:
Fine. Just rocks. Yeah, she knows what’s up?

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
Their motto is literally never settle for good enough. It’s printed on all of their material.

Maggie:
Yeah. It’s really really cool. Arthur is funny enough actually has some Onyx left over from Christmas time at their shop

Rich:
Huge selection actually. Um,

Maggie:
Yeah, so I would say definitely go online. There are really really good coffee. Or over videos Roasters like can somebody YouTube like, how do you started I learned from James Hoffman. Um, That I think you sent me some Chris Baca videos. I I can link them in our show not James.

Rich:
Yeah

Maggie:
The videos. No, seriously. I want to give some someone like me who was like me at one point like

Rich:
Yeah the

Maggie:
Ability to do this at home if they’re really interested and they feel intimidated. So I I will tell you literally exactly what I did when I started making like specialty grade coffee at home. I purchased a colita Um, or you could do a Chemex, but I I personally purchased a Kaleida pour over. I thought it was Melita. Differently after both houses just oh

Rich:
Melita is a coffee brand. Um, Kalida is as I believe Japanese.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
Um coffee brewer. It’s gonna look like it’s very similar to that

Maggie:
The cone except it’s metal. Oh,

Rich:
Well, they make different stuff. They really make different styles. I didn’t know anything they make glass and plastic but I was gonna say is they have a flat bottom and this is a cone.

Maggie:
Okay,

Rich:
So there’s cone drippers. There’s the flat bottom V60 is a cone dripper, but it’s got like some like waves inside. It’s got like the complete this is this I believe is modeled after. It has a seat. This has a spiral in it. And that’s part of the V60 situation. There’s like a spiral and it’s supposed to drink the water. Maybe I don’t know. I don’t know how a lot of these things come out and then they’re not as the coolest like,

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
They stand out to be when they when they first come out.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
They’re main difference between khalida and a more of a specific cone dripper is just that flat bottom. Yeah, which is no issue different style is a bird

Maggie:
So go order if you don’t have a local roaster or a local coffee shop order your coffee online. Yes from Onyx good. Is I I really personally Love George I will call

Rich:
You

Maggie:
George Howell coffee. Yeah, if that’s how you pronounce this last name George Howell. Yes. Yeah. I have an interesting story about the link the Chris Baca pour over educational video. Yeah that I learned how to make pour over from yes. A pour over the United States sale. Yeah,

Rich:
I love Vegas Hot Tips.

Maggie:
I literally just bought one of these cone coffee drippers a mini Melita one and I’m putting it in my staging stuff. Nice. It was $1.

Rich:
That’s cool.

Maggie:
So and my other one my larger one that I own I also bought at a different estate sale. That’s what I’m saying. Like these are the types of things that

Rich:
This was really interesting about finding those at a estate sale. Is that pour overs are not new? They’re just recently hot.

Maggie:
They’re like from like the 50s or something

Rich:
Moreover. Brewing has been around forever.

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
Melita would be a company that was making pour over Brewers all for a long time. And obviously, who knows what was that? I mean Chemex. The first Chemex with the chemist was invented in like 1941. I’m pretty sure

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
I have a 1949 Chemex Brewer. It still has the Pyrex stamp on it from one. That was like when they were. when they were not being manufactured but in-house or in another country, so that’s Just to give you a sense like this is not a New Concept and Chemex is not just totally side track this thing but just just increased the perspective here, right? That’s that’s my realm this. That’s my job this season. I’m creating perspective round coffee Chemex was invented that long ago by literally a chemist a scientist is why it’s called Chemex and it’s it’s in the whole design is around. How can we make better coffee? So again pour overs have long been um a sought-after way to brew one convenient coffee, but to to brew better coffee at home, and it’s just that the technique It’s just that coffee itself in terms of what we understand about how coffee Brews the science and the and the general awareness around what is going on has really increased over time specially in the last. 10 to 15 arguably 20 years. We call it third wave and what is meant by Third wave coffee is we’re in the the modern the Modern Way of the modern era of coffee. Has been one of increasing our understanding of what is happening. It’s increasing the transparency. Of around coffee from what’s going on in the farm level. With Farmers how it’s produced right? We can see into that now and then even how caught how we make better coffee. It’s all about increasing that. That skill set around this. So shout out to the estate sales you moreovers because it’s not it’s not just a specialty Third Way thing. It’s like yeah,

Maggie:
You know, that’s what literally now it’s popular. You just have to go into the kitchen like you walk into the kitchen you go into like sometimes they’ll be all over on the countertop and sometimes you got to open cabinets, but like I have found multiple pour overs those mocha that’s mocha pots from the next espresso miniature for authors French presses like Go to an estate sale. Yeah, and and yeah,

Rich:
Maggie’s estate sale tips.

Maggie:
Yes

Rich:
How to find the best coffee setup at an estate sale.

Maggie:
That’s really cool. Yeah, um, but but yeah to sum it all up just like $30 pour over equipment. You don’t even need a grinder. Alright, like if you have to like you can buy your coffee pre ground just buy it in small amounts. So you can drink it, you know in like a reasonable amount of time so it won’t go bad or if you want to buy it in larger amounts just split the cost with your roommate or whatever. Yeah, like make coffee, you know, like my coffee grinder is like a little bit taller than this container of what is this? Cookie butter. Yeah, and it’s like it’s like a hand. It’s like very convenient to use.

Rich:
You said it’s a whirly blade.

Maggie:
Yes.

Rich:
So that’s what a lot of people are gonna have and it’ll do a job. But something to understand about coffee is when you are trying to extract. The good parts out of your coffee beans. That’s why we grind coffee. It’s so we can get coffee material out of the beans into our cups, right? If you use a whirlyblade grinder, you are inevitably inevitably going to get particles of all different sizes.

Maggie:
Yes,

Rich:
And you’ve seen that if you’ve ever used one of these, you know, if you’re dealing with spices, maybe you care less, which is actually what those Grinders are made for if you’re thinking about coffee and trying to get the same amount of material out of each particle. That’s basically what’s gonna happen is you’re gonna get what we call Boulders and and fines and everything in between and you’re gonna pull out more you’re gonna over extract material from very small particles and you’re not going to extract enough out of some of the bigger particles. It’s called under extraction. And then what you’re going to have is uneven flavor. When what you want. It was particles that were roughly about the same size across the board and that’s why we talk about the kinds of Grinders that we talk about you want something that give you more even particle size across the board.

Maggie:
What would that be called?

Rich:
Typically a burr grinder is gonna do yeah

Maggie:
You are. Yeah, I I also have a hand grinder other

Rich:
Hand Grinders

Maggie:
Are undervalued. They are undervalued. They really get the job done. But to call back my espresso problem at home. I have a hand grinder. I thought it would help me achieve the finer grind setting that I need for the espresso that my Encore just can’t do 30 minutes later. Literally like it took me my friends were watching me when I was trying to make a flare espresso in my apartment one time. I literally it was like an arm workout. Like I was just doing this here 30 minutes. I was switching hands. I was I was cranking it and

Rich:
Wouldn’t recommend first espresso

Maggie:
And and I have yeah, and and I Still didn’t get a good espresso out of it because I I can’t dial it in either like like you have to dial in espresso to make sure it tastes good. But I did it way too fine to the point where the flare couldn’t even push the water through the coffee and it’s exploded everywhere. So too would someone’s like blender be a good substitute or a food processor.

Rich:
No. No because I

Maggie:
Stayed the blade same thing the burgers I think about, you know, tools people might already have

Rich:
Here’s Okay, that’s a fair question. That’s a fair question and you can do that but

Maggie:
Ultimately

Rich:
Yeah, see I’m trying to ride this line. I’m like, I’m like, how much do we allow for just using what you have and how much do we start to think differently about coffee and start thinking about maybe it’s time to invest in a process that really should be more of a process and that’s when I got my grinder,

Maggie:
But if you have the coffee shop near you just ask them to grind the coffee for you. Like I would happily grind someone’s coffee. Even if they hadn’t purchased it at our shop or like I said if you’re drinking In a certain amount of time just buy a ground. You know, like I I personally would find that better than trying to find some new business idea rent a grinder. grinder Library, I’m

Rich:
Literally smiling because that’s that’s intriguing. That’s really interesting because you could kind of do that. Like online you could have like an online like a like a web base

Maggie:
Or you can have like

Rich:
He is that you keep the your business is keeping the birds fresh.

Maggie:
Mm-hmm.

Rich:
You know what I mean? Like as long as it’s got good good Birds, which you can change it out. then that’s a suggest an investment on the on the on our end running our

Maggie:
Business connect. Can I rent your

Rich:
Marketing? 20 25 House Coffee

Maggie:
Or just like

Rich:
Berets are

Maggie:
Okay dollar to grind your coffee or something like that. That’s just for maintenance. That’s funny idea. I want to rent your espresso machine.

Rich:
There are companies that run as president.

Maggie:
Yeah

Rich:
And grinders ultimately that’s actually actually already has a business.

Maggie:
Yes, but my trailer thought trail of thought. As has gone a little bit off the rails. I just want to finish. Okay,

Rich:
Um, I started writing down so it’s gonna remind you. Thank you.

Maggie:
So pour over. Got that kitchen scale. It doesn’t need to be anything crazy as long as you can measure in grams. You can pull up the timer on your phone. But mine also does time just so you can see the grams of the coffee the grams of the water that you’re pouring and and takes to finish the pour over because it’s like a sweet spot and how much time it takes for all of the water that you want in the pour over to be finished. I’m doing this.

Rich:
And

Maggie:
I don’t weigh my coffee. And I I definitely do a poor and like walk away and come back and pour and here’s here’s my next point and you’re not wrong

Rich:
And I’ll tell you why after TJ’s done,

Maggie:
Um is the kettle that you’re using as well for water? um, who’s that kettle and I I understand I know you have that that there are some gooseneck cattles that you just turn it on and it goes until it’s boiling that’s around 200 to 200 12 degrees Fahrenheit. Um, but I personally prefer just like for a few bucks extra gooseneck Kettle that you can control the temperature. Um, it’s called variable temp. Yeah. Those are the kettles that we would use the coffee shop and that’s like what I would aim for when I first started out. I borrowed a broken one from Rich that was sitting in the basement unused because it would leak water all over the place. So that that’s the gooseneck Kettle that I started out with you could control the temperature at which you were Brewing the poor over which Rich can probably explain way better than me how significant it is to the chemistry of the Brew process. Um because there is a ton of chemistry that

Rich:
Goes here.

Maggie:
Okay. Well, we’re all gonna come back after watching some videos and listen to some podcasts on the chemistry of coffee, but I’m saying is like to summarize this whole thought is Rich challenged me yes to learn more about specialty coffee and the whole process and so as I am on this journey of learning how to make better coffee or good coffee at home. I am just sharing some of these methods and I just thought you know some buddy listening may also feel very intimidated by specialty coffee. Like I am and not really want to attempt it because there’s so many rules and there’s so many things and it can be so expensive and so my whole thing is going back to rich said before is is that accessibility but also, like making it technically good. Yeah. Like coffee snobbery on a budget and and that’s that’s the that’s what I was saying about. The coffee lovers pipeline is you’re doing the right thing the fact that you care in the first place. You’re that’s it. That’s all you need, like like if you care. then then you’re gonna you’re going to do within your means. You are going to create. the best tasting coffee to your subjective like palette, you know, like like as long as you care like if you care about anything in life like you like you’re gonna try to do it as well as you can. you know that that’s just in my opinion

Rich:
I mean, yeah, that’s that’s a good summary.

Maggie:
Is you have one more final thought there’s just so many like.

Rich:
I have my work cut out for me.

Maggie:
I like with me. Yeah,

Rich:
I like the concept of coffee.

Maggie:
This was your idea

Rich:
Office now Brianna budget, that’s fine. They’re yeah, I mean frankly with about wrap up time on this conversation because I don’t need there’s there’s no way to really go from here without getting under the surface of a lot of different things. related to to the coffee brewing process and and so my main goal like like we like we said already a couple times is is to like I ultimately I want specialty coffee to be more accessible. Not just coffee brewing at home or or even better coffee brewing at home. I’m not here just to help you make better coffee. That’s my other business. It’s called better coffee Consulting. Okay? I’m here to represent and this is a big and I’m not equipped for it. So I’ll be challenging myself with this right but I’m here to represent specialty coffee. And we said that

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
You said that about me.

Maggie:
Yes, so,

Rich:
You know know that. That’s where I’m coming from. It’s like we’re gonna the challenge here is to take it up a level. Or five. Okay. What I when I’m not here to do is knock anyone for where they are. Or even knock I’m not in my head or even if they don’t care, that’s fine. We’re not your people necessarily right? I’m here to challenge you to care more. about your process because coffee deserves it.

Maggie:
I love that.

Rich:
And you deserve it. We all deserve better coffee and if We all begin to think differently about it. We would the bar for cop like coffee would already be higher but it’s the fact that we we don’t care. We don’t think about it. We take it for granted. We trivialize it. We paid 99 cents a cup for it any size. at the gas station and we’re most happy to do so. Especially at 1:00 am when it’s the only option right? I like there’s already a broken system that I’m trying to just do what I can to help. Correct. Let me give you and I’ll leave with this right in Australia. The cafe culture is 10 years or more ahead of the US. What I mean is you can walk into your gas station and the coffee quality the expectation around what you’re gonna get is already higher. It’s it’s like the base level the quote unquote cheap coffee is is already on par with some of our mid-range or higher end stuff. And the cafe culture and the whole experience around Coffee espresso drinks. It’s just like it’s light years ahead. So the it’s like a whole different but that’s a whole cultural phenomenon. And you know, I don’t even know that I’d be on the low end maybe maybe like story would be on the low end of Of Australian coffee experiences. Just knowing what I know. I haven’t been to Australia. I just know this to be true. That’s the reputation. So I say that to give you like again to help with the perspective around this. I am not trying to compare the us or like I’m not trying to say we need to be like that.

Maggie:
You

Rich:
Need to be like me. It’s not really about that as much as it is. I just see the reason the reason I’m passionate about my realm right. The reason I’m passionate about coffee is because I’ve experienced it on another level. And I’ve also done a little bit of the work to like figure out the path to get there and it’s it’s easier than people think it might cost a little bit of money. You know or might it might cost a little bit of time. If nothing else there can be changes you can make at home or a tool you could put on your bar that actually doesn’t cost that much money. It just requires a little more intention and a little more time. You might not have that so frankly you on my tip. If you’re not willing to invest in the time or the money into it get an espresso. You will have a better coffee experience with your Nespresso maker and the frother that comes with it. Then you will try and like half managed the process that otherwise require some attention.

Maggie:
And I wish we were sponsored by Nespresso.

Rich:
Maybe we will be.

Maggie:
That’s a good that’s a good takeaway.

Rich:
So, I don’t know. I hope that’s clear because I’m not gonna repeat that. Yeah,

Maggie:
But

Rich:
That’s right.

Maggie:
I will repeat it challenge. He says he wants to challenge you to care more because coffee deserves it and you deserve it.

Rich:
Hey, that’s where CJ.

Maggie:
Um just

Rich:
Started monopolize it but it is my podcast.

Maggie:
Like this is the second time about it, but If you have the tools. There are ways that you can brew coffee better. That’s right. Like if you don’t have the tools the tools are expensive, you know,

Rich:
Like that’s the only cat I say is you you’re right if you have the tools. That’s true. I think you can get a version of a tool that’s less much less expensive. Yeah than what we would use in a coffee shop or something else. Right? Like you can find versions of these tools. You can even arguably use not use a gooseneck cut. I’ll just use a regular Kettle. Yeah. I mean like there are ways to make the process more intentional but also

Maggie:
Just

Rich:
As accessible as as you need it to be

Maggie:
I love to go to see like a coffee competition where like world class Baristas have to make like coffee using like everyday home objects

Rich:
Half of them couldn’t do it.

Maggie:
Yeah like a normal cattle and like like a What do you call it a whirly grinder and like really

Rich:
So sick.

Maggie:
Would that be funny? Yeah. all all of these are all just tools I and I’m gonna bring it in the music world because that’s like half of my life just for a quick sec. You know, I I can buy a squire. Guitar which is a tenth of the price of like a Fender Stratocaster or something looks the same distance, but there there are like some like mechanical differences in the technology that’s used within the fender versus The Squire but most people don’t have that trained of an ear if you practice your instrument and play it better than the dude that can play the $2,000 Fender Stratocaster. Who cares like you’re arguably cooler if you can like I I there there’s a poem. By by Jack Stratton under the name Wolfman. He’s musician that I love by wolf back. Um, I like vulfpeck. Yeah, they’re really awesome. He just put out a poem. That says like where are your tools man, you know like like all of these predecessors that came before us. Had all of these tools like like very simple tools to create what they wanted to create, you know. He says James Jamerson used one finger referencing the bass player James Jamerson who only played bass with one finger. You know, it’s it’s such a simple way and on

Rich:
Strumming hands.

Maggie:
Yeah, like like it’s it’s it’s a constraining way to play your instrument, but it’s it’s a means of creating something great with the tools that yeah have you should really read the creative act a way of being by Rick Rubin? I will write that down. the creative act the creative act

Rich:
Shout out to what mag has been listening to

Maggie:
That was the last episode it’s called the creative act a way of being it’s very Rick Rubin. Rick Rubin from Jeff Jam records you’d probably yeah, I definitely heard of Rick Rubin and I I’ve worked I love a lot of his work. We have to wrap this up. This is been oh very long five percent. Oh shoot. Um, I’m really really And on the edge. Yeah, I am but love Jack Stratton. That’s a beautiful poem. Everyone should check it out. It’s very inspiring in a nutshell. These are our tools. And if you don’t have the tools that is fine just with the means that you can. there there is a method in a way to care more about what you’re creating and and put more of that care into it to create something coffee is okay. It is art.

Rich:
Okay.

Maggie:
Coffee coffee people. There’s a whole magazine about that.

Rich:
Well, that’s a great start. Frankly. This was enlightening to me just about how I’m gonna approach this podcast with our new our new takes. So

Maggie:
I’m loving it.

Rich:
I’m excited to hear from you.

Maggie:
Yeah, this was a longer than normal episode, right? You know not I’m not blaming I’m just trying to say that people know the people know like

Rich:
Always

Maggie:
Be this long, but we really loved having TJ and like hearing his perspective on stuff shucks.

Rich:
That’s totally true.

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
All right. Well, here’s praying that all the tech all the technical components of a three-way conversation come together and that you hear this

Maggie:
I can hear the attra going

Rich:
Exactly

Maggie:
As I’m editing it. Yeah later

Rich:
These

Maggie:
Bye. here