12: Let’s Talk About Burnout Culture

Intro:
Hey, you’re drinking house coffee – unfiltered conversations brewed at the intersection of real estate life and coffee shop service. We’re Maggie and Rich – local business owners and friends sharing stories and welcoming you to pull up a chair with us. The door’s always open. Let us pour you a cup.

Rich:
Okay, I hit record and I hit the play button this morning. So we should be ready to roll this time.

Maggie:
Sweet.

Rich:
Shout out to TJ for making our iPhone video iPhone audio sounds as sweet as it could

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
And thanks for thanks for going through that with us guys. If you did listen to that episode

Maggie:
Last week’s episode was probably my favorite episode that we’ve recorded so far and it’s like only in video audio which is kind of ironic but I think that just we we wanted to roll with it anyway because the content was so good. Yeah genuine.

Rich:
I figured it could it be fine dude every podcast that I listen to at least and I don’t listen to a lot of podcasts but every podcast I listen to is the type of vibe where it’s like, hey, we’ve loved it. But we’re gonna just go with this one and that works for me. Yeah TJ comments that he’s like, you know, I’m happy that there’s like this consistency. If nothing else. There’s just to see of the vibe of like You know, we’re just real people out here.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
And that’s all you can be in his life.

Maggie:
I liked what you said before you hit record, which is today’s episode is brought to you by Burnout.

Rich:
Yeah, well it is and that is in fact what we’re talking about today. Yeah. Where do we start?

Maggie:
I’m sure every creative person has experienced burnout. You’ve experienced burnout. I know for a fact. I don’t know Bernard’s an interesting thing and

Rich:
I don’t know if I actually personally have really gotten to that point, but I probably have and maybe the fact that I’m like I don’t know was that really burnout is like enough of a situation that that I was, you know, I think burnout has this whole gaslighting thing that it that the culture the burnout culture maybe this thing to us over like I don’t know was it that extreme when really was like no one should live to this. These kinds of standards, you know, so probably yes. I think I could own. I think it’s a burnout. Yeah, and I don’t burn out last night even ironically after we talked about all this stuff. Yeah, I went to bed like 1 am.

Maggie:
Oh wow.

Rich:
But anyway, that’s

Maggie:
Super late. I got a text a late text from

Rich:
From here not. Well. Yeah, but I didn’t see it

Maggie:
Till the morning because I’m I go to bed at like 9:00, so I don’t really see anything after now. I put my phone on do not disturb. That’s why you’re not gonna see it. Yeah, and but I did get a text. I actually did see a text before I fell asleep from a client and I was like This is a tomorrow problem. This isn’t a tonight problem and I just put my phone down and I fell asleep sick.

Rich:
Did you have my voice ringing in your ears yesterday?

Maggie:
Um, yes, and no I mean that’s it’s something that I’ve always. I’m no good to anybody after nine o’clock. I just after 8 o’clock. I’m no good to anybody what that’s not my best work. But if somebody texts me after nine o’clock, they’re gonna get a text right after 5 am

Rich:
Nice.

Maggie:
That’s just how it works as I have

Rich:
As I do. Yeah

Maggie:
As you have from me, yeah. Oh yeah

Rich:
Even like this morning.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
And that’s fair. That’s totally fair. I’m often up on both ends of that. I’m often the one sending the text, but I’m also up to receive your text these days. Yeah.

Maggie:
So what what made you want to talk about? Burnout Rich? Because I think this was this episode was your idea.

Rich:
This was my this was my idea and partly. I really just think this is something that’s that’s a big conversation right now. in the entrepreneurial space creative people anyone working anywhere ever right now like this is this is something that I think a lot of people are are rubbing up against experiencing themselves or you know someone who is and I think It just makes sense for us to talk about it. But last week you literally we’re sending in this chair and said to me. I think I’m burned out. That’s like yeah, that makes sense. So I wanted to hear more. I wanted to give you a chance to talk more about like your experience of burnout lately. I certainly can talk about. it’s funny because like I was saying to you that I don’t feel so burnt out right now and maybe this is like this last six months has been the period of the least of feeling of burnout for me since starting the business like five years ago, and and that’s intriguing to think about and refreshing to like not feel burnt out but then as soon as let We had our conversation yesterday and then last night I was literally up. All day long yesterday. I was stressing out about this week ahead because of all the different things I have going on that are a little out of the ordinary that have to account for because now I’ve got like a new job on top of owning my own business and there’s something to balance with all that stuff and then I had a whole bunch of extra stuff to do yesterday. Yeah, so I was ugly and I was just feeling like just feeling like wow, I’m gonna I cannot continue to do it this way because I will very quickly approach burnout again.

Maggie:
Yeah, and you have like Monday Tuesday as you’re off days,

Rich:
Right? Well, that was yeah, and that was part of it. So Monday is supposed to be my day to do this stuff, but it’s also my day with Oliver when I had him yesterday and I still went to three different meetings.

Maggie:
So

Rich:
That just doesn’t work. I can’t like do what when half my work has to be on the computer like putting in food orders and doing payroll and all the other stuff that has to happen on a Monday because I can either do a Sunday or Monday. Neither of those feels great. So I was like, all right, well have Oliver so I can go to these meetings. I kind of beep physically present somewhere, but I can’t like Get enough time on the computer in one shot where all he doesn’t need something. Yeah, that’s that I can do it. And so it came down to doing it last last night. But yeah, so those are supposed to be my days off. They’re not gonna be days off ever. Tuesday is my day without Ollie because he’s got a babysitter, but I still have four meetings tomorrow and And then I have to and they’re all in different places. Although I’m gonna see if I can move some of them. So they’re kind of closer together and on top of that. I had some actual shop work I wanted to do and I have two shops to account. Yeah so man. This so this is all new and that’s a little bit wise unorganized or organized chaos that I have to like iron out how to put all that together. With a child

Maggie:
Work-life balance, but I think I can challenge for all but

Rich:
Obviously believe I can do it because I sign out for these things. And my team believes I can do it because they gave me permission to do all these things. My team includes my wife and so I mean, I know it’s possible. It’s just like this is the first week of me being responsible for a a particular set of of tasks that of something that other people have done.

Maggie:
Yeah, so

Rich:
That’s Yeah, yes. I don’t know about those but you know not having to go to the shop and serve customers like that’s kind of like a day off when you’re in my my industry.

Maggie:
Yeah. and I in I can relate to that because there’s no days off. I feel like in my industry and I’m not saying that as like a not trying to be competitive. I’m just saying like I actually had a pretty good discussion with Brandon yesterday about like like there are times and it’s usually this time of year during summer. Where I feel like I don’t get to enjoy my summer be in like which is my favorite time of year. The days are the longest like the nights are the longest and there’s just I there’s so much Nostalgia associated with summer for me and I don’t want to be stressed out during these months and right now I am and I am thinking about like What can I do? What can I change to make it such that? I’m not stressed out during my favorite time of year because in real estate you got to get while to get is good. And right now the getting’s good, but like high stress. like high return means high stress and I’m in the middle of a balancing act right now because my staging business is just I’m in In Demand right now and I’m doing more staging for non-clients. So like people who are hiring me to Stage like other agents who are hiring me to Stage. I’m not just a staging my own listings, so Like that’s really cool really exciting. And I said yes to like what my one of my bigger projects I’ve ever done which is my broker. Judy gabler is opening a new location in Glenville, which is so exciting for me because I’ve never worked for my prior broker was in another town and two towns that I didn’t live in he had two three offices. and net like Judy’s main office is in Delmar and she’s opening a location in Glenville, which is like 10 minutes away from where I live and it’s so exciting because I’m I’m finally in a company that’s like where I where I work all the times before. I’ve been, you know, I’ve been Schenectady County working in Schenectady County, but Not necessarily in Glenville with my brokerages. So that’s really exciting. She has hired me to Basically style and state permanently staged the new office. and she’s given me a budget and she’s and I’ve I’ve taken Joe on to help me because my friend Joe shout out to Joe is just of good friend of mine who I met through Pottery Barn who who used we both used to work there and he’s great at styling things and He’s also really good at reigning me in we had a meeting at my house last night and he was at my house until like almost 10 and we were planning and preliminarily shopping for items. And this is such a fun project and it’s making me realize like oh, I think I think I want to pursue this more but I’m scared about like detaching myself as like Maggie the real estate agent. And I don’t think there will ever be a day where i’m not. Selling Houses but I’d love to be able to get to the point where I don’t need to sell the house in order to make ends meet. So

Rich:
Yeah. I mean

Maggie:
That was the burnout.

Rich:
Yeah,

Maggie:
That’s a little bit of a intro to my burnout,

Rich:
So your okay, so I’m gonna hear you say is that staging is ramping up.

Maggie:
Yep, and

Rich:
You’ve got all these jobs and they’re and that’s a big one. That last one sounds like pretty big. So that’s a lot on your mind and a lot on your plate.

Maggie:
Well, I’ve never staged for somebody who. Asked me to purchase furniture for the space. Like when I staged just to give a quick out overview when I staged someone’s house. You

Rich:
Take all your furniture from your living room furniture

Maggie:
Joe Rags on me for that, too. I I basically own all my inventory. And I use my own inventory. Yes. Some of it has been collected from my house and has never returned back to my house just sort of lives in my trailer or bounces from house to house

Rich:
Shout. That’s a brand.

Maggie:
Sorry Brandon, but I’ve never staged a space before where I’ve had to. Curate and Source everything because this is an empty office. So I have to purchase I have to thoughtfully decide what types of waiting room chairs or or conference room chairs and tables and and consoles and coordinate with somebody who can hang TVs and wire things and all things that are logistically simple, but just kind of take up time and you have to like dedicate the brain space to do not my strong point, but I’ve got someone like Joe who’s very organized and is great at math so he can you know, calculate things and logistically because he was like, we’re not gonna order all this at once because it’s gonna arrive at your house and then you have to do you have to bring it to the office and then some of these things need to be assembled and what are you going to do with all the boxes and like packaging that this comes in and that already kind of stresses me out because I don’t want I’m I think I’ve said in a prior episode. I’m kind of against purchasing things that like add to the landfill. but in this case if I want to find four matching occasional chairs How else am I going to do that unless I buy them new because this is this is like a yeah, that’s

Rich:
Interesting. Right? It’s a different vibe.

Maggie:
But what I am going to do is when it comes to like decor and some of the smaller pieces, I want to Source from local shops, like Bluebird and be inspired because I would love to be able to support those small businesses. And I know that they use a lot of Artisans and reclaimed things so, Yeah. Anyways, that’s that’s the shortened version of the long the long version of my short story.

Rich:
Yeah. So what is so like what are the signs to you that you’re like burning out what? What indicates to you? I don’t think I think you’re maybe like bouncing back from last year. And you said yeah for sure but That’s just my read but like last week. What were you feeling? What was the experience of

Maggie:
The feeling that

Rich:
What even brought even though? Like what brought it on? Like how

Maggie:
What brought it on last week was? it’s partially because it’s things outside of my control which the real estate market today in Upstate New York, June 2023. It’s still very much a seller’s market. There are still multiple offers. on any house, that’s And worth you know any any buyer wanting to live there? And properties that sold. several years ago like 250 used to be a great $250,000 used to be a great budget for the average price point the average Joe looking to buy a house. Now you can’t even get into a decent house without any problems for less than 350. in my experience

Rich:
Wow,

Maggie:
Because Houses are selling over asking price and there’s demand and people are willing to pay. for that demand so I was feeling burnt out because I I listed a house and we had I don’t even know how many showings maybe 30 or 40 showings in like the span of three days and we had 10 offers and that that was a night that I was at. A client’s house past ten o’clock reviewing these offers and I don’t just sit like when I when I present offers to my clients. I don’t just hand them the papers that like print the papers and hand them to I actually put all of the terms and prices and information into a spreadsheet. So it’s organized so that they can look at each offer and compare apples to apples like inspection terms escalation price closing dates mortgage dates the amount of their deposit you kind of have to compare all the Um nuts and bolts of someone’s offer. It’s not always about the highest price. Sometimes it’s about the best terms. Yeah and these people in particular wanted to Compare that and then what happened was? They accepted an offer and like people are still trying to see the house and people are still sending me. like verbal text offers after I’ve said they’ve accepted and signed an offer. I’m still getting people who are desperate to buy a house. like Oh, my client wants to offer this and I’m obligated to share any offer that I receive at any point in the transaction. Even if it’s the day before closing and somebody texts me and says I want to make an offer on your listing for five dollars. I am legally bound to present that offer have to like that’s just yeah my my Duty as as an Asian is to present any any offer like that and it just causes a lot of confusion when? you tell some like and it get annoyed when agents are so persistent and you say they’ve accepted and signed an offer and they’re like well, my my client wants to offer x amount and will they can can you let me know what they say? And then I say that I tell my clients and like hey, I’m obligated to share this information with you. You got another backup offer even though you’ve already accepted one and now their questioning things and it just adds confusion and they’re like, what do you think we should do and I was like well They haven’t even seen the house in person yet. They haven’t provided any proof of funds. And their agent is being really pushy with me right now. So like those are three things that I don’t like and it could add up to be you might add up to regret changing your mind on this. so long story short, they that we didn’t end up going with that backup offer, but it just it just adds confusion to the mix and on top of that like I’m working with. A handful of other buyers who? need to see a house before The deadline of the offers are coming in so usually like if a house hits the market and it’s a great house. You only have a three-day window to see it and make an offer on it and so my clients and just like a lot of other buyers out there right now are under a lot of pressure to make a decision of 350 to 450,000 decision. After seeing a house for less than 30 minutes. and I that’s so. Wild to me, but that is what I mean when you know, I think a couple weeks ago. We talked about normalizing this craziness. That’s kind of part of this craziness. That’s in the real estate market and I I kind of have like I have to always be. vigilant Because if somebody texts me and they want to see a house. I have to be able to get them in there as soon as possible because they could miss an opportunity. to see the house because it might be sold in a day or two and to me that’s a lot of pressure and that is what’s preventing me from enjoying my favorite time of year because I’m instead of like being in the moment and living and being happy and like You know. Planning a summer trip or like for example my best friend Amy. Her birthday is this month? And she is going to Ireland and she invited me to go to Ireland with her and I I’m like Brandon’s like you should go you should go to Ireland. It’s at the end of the month and I was like, all right. All right, I’ll just do it and then my passports expired will expires this month and I don’t even have the mental brain space to dedicate to figuring out how to like. renew my passport and expedite it and like plan like a trip. Right now because I’m so preoccupied with all the other things on my plate and to me that is an indicator like to me that is sad that like I can’t even plan to go on. a trip to Ireland with my best friend because I’m so caught up with all the stuff I’ve got going on with work and that is what that’s not that’s no fun. Like that’s not what it’s all about.

Rich:
Yeah. Honestly, isn’t Fun. man

Maggie:
And then if I even went to Ireland with her, let’s say my passport wasn’t expiring. I’ve got x amount of houses under contract right now and like people texting me after nine o’clock at night with like what they think is like a world ending question that they need to get off their heads, but like I wouldn’t be able to relax. I wouldn’t be able to go to. I wouldn’t be able to enjoy my best friend and celebrate my best friend because I’d be so concerned about. What I’m not accomplishing. back at home I don’t. That’s not cool. I want to reach a point where I want to make a change in my business where I’m not I can go on a trip. To Ireland with my best friend and shut my phone off. And not worry that the world is gonna end. Won’t that be nice? Sounds nice. You know, yeah,

Rich:
That gives me some thoughts. first of all I was just like thinking how that’s how that’s gonna hit people how that sounds everything you’re saying. And so hopefully it just like resonates with people but then there was like this weird little voice in the background. That was like And I’m not saying this is good. This this is actually part of the problem. I think there was like this voice in the back my head that was like so I’m just gonna hear that or I might even something inside of me says like Well, that’s what you signed up for. Right? And I’m like, yeah, dude, shut up, like that is actually

Maggie:
Signed up for it all but not really

Rich:
Like the point and and how accurate is that now to a degree. It has to be accurate probably depending on someone’s industry or career or or whatever it is, but See, this is why I’m interested in this conversation. It’s like what needs to change? it’s not just what needs to change in your life is what needs to change in like all around us what needs to happen so that like this chain of like the system is kind of overhauled. It’s almost like a system overhaul, then he’s to happen. So then none of us have to think. Now I know this is literally impossible. I like this is so many things for you to do one another in the way the economy and the workforce and Company cultures and stuff work but That’s the kind of the way I start thinking about stuff like the same man. We’re really deep in this thing. And this is part of why there’s this issue and it’s it’s because you this is like this culture and this expectation and you can’t one person can’t change that. You know, you kind of just have to decide for yourself. And this is what you’re saying and asking is like, how do I change something for me? Because I can’t change the the broader situation. That’s tough ask.

Maggie:
Yeah, and I don’t have the answers specifically. I just don’t know like what? but the short-term solution is because we’re in mid-june right now and I’m glad that I am like self-aware enough to realize now like that. It’s happening again because it happens every year and

Rich:
True.

Maggie:
It’s just like I don’t want to wake up one day and be like wow I pissed away like the last 10 Summers of my life because I was so concerned about making someone happy or getting somebody that house or getting somebody these offers when like I could have been. spending more time with Brandon or hanging out and playing with my dogs or going to Ireland with my best friend. You know,

Rich:
Yeah. Well, I have an easy solution for you. Maggie is Off the Grid guys for the next. three weeks ways his mother next month

Maggie:
For what are it? Oh, no. I’m not there. I don’t have a passport. I can’t go.

Rich:
Listen. I’m clearing your schedule. All right, I’m gonna take all your calls.

Maggie:
All right,

Rich:
I’m gonna say look Maggie’s on. Um, she’s on a fast track to Rhode Island, right? You just got a give her a break and call back through that.

Maggie:
I know that would be I would love that. That would be so fun.

Rich:
That’s that’s a tough one. That’s when did you when did you hear about that trip?

Maggie:
Like a week and a half ago.

Rich:
Yeah, I mean Short-term trips are short notice. I’m sure notice trip to Ireland is yeah,

Maggie:
Like

Rich:
The grocery store.

Maggie:
I feel like Prereal State Maggie. First of all wouldn’t even let her passport expired. That would have been out of the question. I would be like my passports expiring I need to get that renewed right away. So that’s the other thing that I was like down in myself about because I’m like man I the old Maggie like wouldn’t let her passport expire and I’ve been so busy and I’ve been so consumed with the things going on in my life, you know the addition of our house and like, you know, my starting a staging business on top of in a busy real estate market like okay starting up Podcast. Like I I have allowed all these other things to become a priority in my life that I haven’t. Like that my password expired. So when when my best friend says hey, let’s go to Ireland. I can’t even take her up on that opportunity. And that’s also what sort of like got me down because I was the old Maggie wouldn’t have let that happen because I would have been I would have known that my passport was going to expire because I was traveling so much. And I haven’t traveled

Rich:
Right,

Maggie:
You know,

Rich:
Yes like when when is traveling on your radar,

Maggie:
Right?

Rich:
So I’m gonna come up.

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
Yeah, I mean it makes total sense. It may sort of sense to me. So yeah,

Maggie:
Thanks for sharing all that. This isn’t meant to be like House Coffee complaints line. It’s just like

Rich:
Or is it also it’s 518. No, just oh it but yeah, you know what? I’d love to hear burnout stories because I think this is something that is so real for people and it doesn’t have to be you know, you don’t have to be this. See burnout can happen here’s okay. This is what I think this is this is where I think we’re not happens. Okay. And I was hearing it in your story. I took a note on it. I think that burnout goes hand in hand with. the inability to relax

Maggie:
Hmm,

Rich:
And that’s kind of where you’re what you were saying to me. Is when you have to grind so hard for. An indetermined period of time see anyone can kind of Sprint right for like a known period of time or a known distance, but if you have to Sprint forever. I have what you’re doing just feels like or even a marathon a Marathon Works. Partly because you know how long it’s supposed to take and you know what to train for

Maggie:
Right and

Rich:
You know how to predict it right and you can tell yourself. I’m gonna start the small business and it’s gonna be three years because what they say right it’s through your grind and I can do that and sure but what if it’s a five year Grant Or what if that first year actually was like a double grind. It’s like how do you just get in your head that there’s something is gonna be like something manageable for your known capacity, but then it’s but then it’s it’s they always say this it’s like twice as expensive. It’s gonna take twice as long etc, etc. And then you get into that and you get to the other end of it except the other end of it doesn’t exist and you’re still in it, and it’s like I’m never gonna be able to chill. And relax and I think that’s what makes things hard. There’s not this balance of you know, maybe this will work life balance means it’s like there’s not this balance of Rest and work in our culture. At least it’s so rare to see and I think that when you When someone’s in a career that they’re I just I have to do it this way. It only works this way. It’s like that might be true of that career, you know stem fields or this way technology here about a lot even like accounting firms. Like there’s just all these industries and and things where So now this is part of it, you know just accept it. The video game culture has a lot of bad rap for this. It’s like it just it just eats people up because there’s no there’s no balance of like you’re gonna work really hard for like this known period of time and then you’re also going to rest you know for these it’s where it’s gonna be a balance and when you when you all you can see in the future like looking ahead is just work. And not knowing when a tax is Gonna Come and you you don’t get to feel like I’m gonna get a week off. I’m gonna get three days off like you just never know when you’re gonna be able to take time off you’re Maybe it happens just here and there and you and you know that well eventually a rest day comes or something like that, you know just kind of falls into place but it’s it’s knowing when you can expect that that I think helps alleviate some of the stress that builds up and leads to to burn it,

Maggie:
Right. That’s

Rich:
My take.

Maggie:
Yeah, and

Rich:
I was hearing you say like, I can’t enjoy my Summers my favorite right? I can’t go on this trip and that’s okay. That’s a big ask no one’s like. Oh man. I wish you could you should be able to take a trip to Ireland anytime. It’s like doesn’t quite work that way in anyone’s realm of these most people’s wrong places, but but like knowing when you can plan a vacation, that’s right, even that makes I think a big difference and that’s that’s I think where like when you have to grind for so long doing something that just you’re not sure if it’s ever gonna give you results in your case. You do know it’s gonna give results but you know start a startup this thing or whatever you just never know, but it’s it’s not even about that as much as it is. There’s not the ability to break from it in a known like a known pattern or repeatability. And I think that’s where my burnout came from comes from. You know in my in my five years of starting. Story didn’t and not only starting but running it like we just never got to a place. It’s just becomes this whole cycle in my case. It was a whole cycle of like I don’t have money to pay staff. So I’m the staff. But because I’m the staff I can’t I’m my capacities limited so I can’t increase production or increase marketing. There’s no money for like driving Revenue. So I’m always just figuring out. Okay, there’s only this much ever coming in like on a daily basis weekly basis. I know what the kind of low end is and I’m just gonna plan around that and so But it’s just me and I’m wearing all these hats and I can’t you’re always gonna be dropping the ball somewhere and but the point is like I can’t. No matter how stuff can’t can’t personally Drive the revenue to get the money to hire staff and just becomes this thing where I’m working. Literally, I was working like 18 hour days. Christine Was it not happy? How was I you know, I was working. I’m in. I don’t

Maggie:
You fall asleep at the

Rich:
I was just gonna say that I have yeah. Yeah, I would sleep on the bench. I would sleep on the bench in the shop. And because it was like I have to do this Bakery prep, but I’m just gonna like but I’m also too tired to do it. So I’m just gonna sleep here. I’m gonna wake up before anyone knows anything and then I’ll finish it there. Maybe I’ll go home and shower before we open up, but I’ll be back to open. It’s just like what on Earth And I you know, we did that for a while and then what happens I’m just like, you know, this is not worth it. And so yes, stop making certain baked goods or stop doing it well together and some people and then and it’s just a cycle. It’s like people are coming in. Oh, you know, you don’t interrupt because it’s like yeah a few dude. Yeah. I don’t have any Bakers right now because I took a nap on that freaking bench last night. Yeah. What do you want from me?

Maggie:
Yeah.

Rich:
And I don’t know how extreme other people’s experiences have been although shout out to you if you slept on if you stepped in your store before I know.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
And I definitely know at least one other person who

Maggie:
Who admits that who

Rich:
Are who I knew that to be true if yeah. And and I knew that person to have an experience and I dude way before I even had my business.

Maggie:
Last week I was staging a house. I was so tired. I was so tired. and also probably have didn’t really eat that much in the day because I just was just busy going I was running on fumes and so tired I was my sofa was still in my trailer and I was like What if I just climbed up in my sofa inside my trailer and took a nap and I Seriously considered it I almost did it and then I was like that might not be the safest thing because I can’t close the doors because then I’ll suffocate and die and then if I leave the door open and some weirdo wants to like climb into the door and sees me sleeping. I’m in a really vulnerable position. So I opted to go to Panera and get some food and that helped.

Rich:
Yeah. Nice. Yeah,

Maggie:
I need to cut you. All right, almost I almost slept in my business on the vibe.

Rich:
I did because well you’ll you’ll achieve that level someday. I’m sure you know when you’re gonna say for environment. Yeah for sure. Rock went out of the couch. I love that. So look, I’m not saying this is how you should do. In fact the fact that these things happen means something’s broken and that is where I’m coming from when this whole burnout thing, it’s like something’s broken we need and we need like a system overall and fortunately it’s it’s become it’s Who knows how long this has been a problem? Maybe this is always been a factor of life. I think it happens in all kinds of Industries and circles and like Pursuits and you hear about it all over the place and you can even get burnt out and stuff. Like you’re that you’re just it’s just part of your routine like doesn’t have to be work. Actually. It’s just, you know parental burnout I think is probably thing. I’m kind of just still new to it. So, I don’t know. Exactly how that goes? And you know, there are two parents in this case. That’s not always a luxury for people so I can see how that could quickly become a thing. So yeah, this is where I was talking about it for now is like it’s too real

Maggie:
Especially our friends. Who are Parents and want to do to start a creative thing. Like that’s got to be really tough. To to balance that I know you’re in the middle of figuring out that balance now. but you had your business before Oliver and I’m just thinking about people listening who maybe already have a family or a kid or two and they’re like, okay. I want to pursue something creative or I want to do something different or more and want to You know, it takes like some reorganizing of priorities and things to to start something. Yeah,

Rich:
How’d you go the other way? Yeah. I mean right I don’t have Don’t have to experience that per se I haven’t

Maggie:
But I mean shout out to those people are still. Doing that. Yeah, and Have more challenges than you know, just working too much. Yeah, you know, I mean that’s a testament to the way that like

Rich:
Our creative person when you get it. That’s the Testament the type of person who does that kind of thing where it’s like I just have this idea. I’m so driven by I have to pursue it and like it’s your passion that kind of carries you through that period and you just figure it out and that’s those are our people, you know, you just right you’re just making it happen. However, that needs to look for giving your life circumstances and everyone’s circumstances is different or unique with its own variables and you just You just do it but it isn’t easy and that’s why we love you. You’re our friends were championing.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
We’re championing you because you know you get us.

Maggie:
Yeah we get you. Yeah, this episode was not meant to be depressing. It was meant to be short and sweet.

Rich:
It’s meant to make you feel hopefully just like identified with like yeah, it’s burned out to depressing thing kind of it’s like bums me out because it’s because of the thing but at the same time you got to know other people are experiencing it too and you got another people are thinking the same similar thoughts to you. It’s like if you feel you’re struggling and if you feel like it’s not normal to sleep on your shop couch, then you’re actually probably rights and you’re here to hear first. Yeah, and

Maggie:
We see you. Yeah,

Rich:
So

Maggie:
Yeah, and other Realtors out there, I see you I feel you’re going through and I wish there was something that we could do as a collective to change. the perspective or the way that the market is because putting more houses on the market. I don’t think is the answer. There’s there’s a cultural shift that I think needs to happen. You

Rich:
Don’t want to buy and sell houses between 9 am and 5 PM Monday through Friday.

Maggie:
Well, can we go back to using landlines? So I can’t be reached 24/7

Rich:
I’d be sick

Maggie:
Our office hours like

Rich:
Shut up,

Maggie:
That would never happen. But like how cool would that be if like we could only go back to using office landlines?

Rich:
Yeah, that’s actually and like leaving messages right that down. We’ll talk about the next week, um landlines and like yeah cell phones and like no like that’s the place and written

Maggie:
Memos, you know, like oh Frank called you got to call him back and then be calling back and you I don’t know.

Rich:
Yeah this whole available anytime my is like his problematic.

Maggie:
Yeah, and

Rich:
You’re hard to hear first.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
You know, I think we’ll actually get into some of that next week when we talk about the whole

Maggie:
Four day work.

Rich:
Well, we’re gonna do next week is kind of like piggy back on this topic and talk about this sort of theoretical idealized but not impossible because it’s happening in certain places like four day work week three day weekend kind of or maybe you might call like a 25 hour work week where you’re working five hours a day, but only five days a week kind of deal. I just yeah. That’s how I could’ve done that with my calculator to watch you’re doing just like less you’re doing more work in less time because the way things are structured it’s structured to make you like. Work optimally and it’s built into the culture and there’s rest and there’s work and they work symbiotically and it just works.

Maggie:
Yeah,

Rich:
So we’re gonna get into that next week and hopefully like do a little bit of research and see you like where that is happening because it is another sort of topic that’s part of this conversation because of burnout culture there are companies and even like regions and even countries. I think that are like really taking more seriously this This question of how do we create more healthy work cultures that are ultimately ironically more productive than this whole work all the time. Available anytime kind of thing that only half works. Yeah, ironically. So so we’re looking at that next week. And

Maggie:
If you if our listeners have any ideas, they should definitely shoot us a DM or like send us an email because this would be a great opportunity for our listeners to chime in on their experiences. We are available anytime at I just made a pun.

Rich:
Why

Maggie:
Are available anytime we’re through email

Rich:
Our available in time, but I’m not gonna read that email until

Maggie:
Yeah

Rich:
The morning.

Maggie:
We’re available anytime but not all the time. Um House Coffee podcast at gmail.com or House Coffee podcast on Instagram. Shoot a message. We do want to hear from you.

Rich:
Sure do or you can call me on my new landline phone at story. Yeah, that’s only new landline. Come see it. Maybe I’ll post I should post on it.

Maggie:
You should

Rich:
You put on our Instagram as well.

Maggie:
I will that’s awesome. I’ll take a picture of it.

Rich:
Shout out to TJ for locking that down.

Maggie:
Yeah, nice work DJ.

Rich:
Alright y’all we love you.

Maggie:
Yeah

Rich:
Grinding but not too hard

Maggie:
But not too hard. Okay

Rich:
Now definitely not a double grind.

Maggie:
Hey, I know later.