Maggie & Rich are flipping out over this discussion! Maggie shares her opinion about the concept of flipping houses (hint, its the other half of the reason she got her real estate license) and Rich talk about how he recently almost joined a multi-level marketing business.
Transcript
Intro:
Hey, you’re drinking house coffee – unfiltered conversations brewed at the intersection of real estate life and coffee shop service. We’re Maggie and Rich – local business owners and friends sharing stories and welcoming you to pull up a chair with us. The door’s always open. Let us pour you a cup.
Maggie:
I feel like it’s always a good day. When I get to break
Rich:
Out the the hoodie vest combo.
Maggie:
I know I’m like wow, you really bundled up today rich.
Rich:
I well. It’s a chilly morning out here in Upstate New York for this fall fall. No this May Day.
Maggie:
Shout out to us for recording on in a morning. I don’t think we’ve recorded in a morning and quite some time.
Rich:
You know what I think you’re right and it was supposed to be 4pm later. But
Maggie:
Yeah,
Rich:
We bumped it up.
Maggie:
Yeah. Well, welcome back to House Coffee.
Rich:
Yeah everybody. Real what this is gonna be episode 9. Yeah. I think if our account is correct.
Maggie:
Yeah, I counted.
Rich:
We’ll talk about last week.
Maggie:
Last week we talked about diversifying our income and talking about get rich quick. Or making a quick buck
Rich:
And
Maggie:
How they’re not really lucrative. And I just listened to that episode this morning to refresh it. So it’s fresh in my brain and we both talked about how we have some. potential income generating ideas that were we’re both individually working on for our businesses.
Rich:
Yeah, I’ll let you know when mine pan out. Yeah.
Maggie:
So what are we talking about today?
Rich:
You know, I think I’ve discovered the way that I’m gonna build my residual income portfolio Okay, check this out. house flipping what do you think? Don’t deal right sure bet.
Maggie:
It’s perfect. I mean you what could go wrong.
Rich:
Everything is I know nothing about it. So I need you to tell me everything because you’re in real estate. You’re a real estate agent. You are building fixing flipping. You’re not happy. You’re you’re doing an addition. Yeah, you must know everything there is to know.
Maggie:
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I definitely know a lot of what not to do.
Rich:
Hopefully everyone knows I’m being here because we’ve already talked about this a little bit and we know you don’t know everything about Hospital thing and I don’t actually know what you know, so I’ll be interested to hear. Um, but this does seem like one of those things that I’ve noticed because I don’t know in the Instagram entrepreneurial quote unquote space or just like economic passive income spent all the stuff. If you click the wrong links, you’re gonna get the algorithms gonna start feeding you the kind of stuff that I’m seeing in my Instagram ads. Okay. I got a lot of coffee going on. I got some spirituality. and then I’ve got All these guys popping up click the link below get your free course. I got this training for you and they’re all damn trying to get you hooked up. Now. Look I’m actually not convinced it as a scam, but I don’t think it’s get rich quick. I think there’s got to be something here, but maybe not maybe not that’s kind of what we’re talking about today. What? Okay. So one thing I’ve observed is there’s a couple particular individuals out there who seem to occupy this flipping invest in real estate with no money down no money at all.
Maggie:
You know if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is that’s my thought
Rich:
Is that your legal advice?
Maggie:
I mean, I think that it’s pretty smart I don’t know if buying a house without any money is a smart idea
Rich:
See Probably I don’t know probably not. I don’t
Maggie:
Like anything without money is like borrowing money to buy something. I think is a really risky thing to do.
Rich:
We shouldn’t have credit cards. Just kidding.
Maggie:
I mean that’s not I don’t I don’t think that credit cards are. Necessarily bad. I just think that you they can easily get out of control.
Rich:
I went Devil’s Advocate on you. That’s
Maggie:
Right
Rich:
For No Good Reason, okay. Well, we’re outside my credit cards and I don’t actually know okay. Here’s here’s a revelation. I didn’t show us with you before we got life. So the two people that stand out to me. I’ve said their names to you before I don’t know if I want to say the names here. Yeah,
Maggie:
Because I don’t want to I don’t want to unknowingly disk.
Rich:
Someone’s we’re not here to diss anymore. I’m not I can’t actually speak for Maggie. Here’s what I know the two people I didn’t realize they were like linked up and I didn’t realize they have a TV show
Maggie:
Okay
Rich:
Together. So there’s a show called triple digit flip. Have you seen this? No. It’s on A&E networks.
Maggie:
Okay,
Rich:
Which I don’t have and they’ll stream it on cable. They don’t stream it on any stream platforms that I have, but I got a real quick. I got a real quick page on the TV Guide website here. So without naming the people in the show, you can easily go look it up. But it says here that their team these guys and their team aim to make every project a triple digit flip as they flip houses in the Phoenix area. So it’s all which I’ve when I’ve realized that these guys. Had this TV show going I kind of laughed myself because I when I was asking you about it preliminarily you had as I wear people getting this idea that you can do this whole house flipping thing and you were like she TV.
Maggie:
Yeah, and
Rich:
I was like, oh interesting and I had didn’t look into that but then I just randomly happen to find out that these two guys that I thought were separate entities occupying a similar space are literally the same that they’re a team with a TV program. And so I was like, oh, okay. Now I haven’t looked that much into the show, but I’m sure it’s like any of those. TV, you know, yeah overly pronounced kind of kind of things but It’s interesting. And I don’t know. I don’t know. I just for some reason I always find myself. I haven’t signed up for any courses, but I do always find myself clicking the link below just to see just what they’re saying.
Maggie:
I don’t think that I think you and I might be coming from two different perspectives because What in a correct me if I’m wrong. I think you’re coming from a perspective of the courses and and Kind of like Mass flipping like buying a house flipping it putting that money into the next flip putting that money into the next flip and just kind of is that what I’m understanding you?
Rich:
I’m not sure.
Maggie:
I’m
Rich:
Not sure. That’s it. That’s a thing. So don’t lose that. Thought. I’ve just noticed that. Okay. I actually let me just try to look this up real quick because I sense I’ve been sending links as these ads are popping up on my Instagram. I’ve been sending them to our
Maggie:
Or our Instagram our Instagram DMS. Okay,
Rich:
So let me
Maggie:
Because then the other school of thought is and while you’re looking for that I there’s also the like I think some people might go into thinking like, oh I could flip a house and maybe it’s it’s a thought like oh this property is run down and I can like put some new paint in and some new kitchen cabinets and make a hundred thousand dollars and I don’t know if that’s really realistic right now and it’s interesting because house flipping has become such a Bad, I feel like and we are in a really. Different Market than we were five ten years ago.
Rich:
Yeah, well.
Maggie:
Just seems like it’s a big interest for people now.
Rich:
Right. So one of my questions is why that’s true because I don’t know if it is. I
Maggie:
Think it’s because people think they can make money. quickly
Rich:
Okay, well. Okay, maybe maybe they think they can make it quick. I think any of us if we sat down and thought about it for 30 seconds would realize like it’s not a quick thing to to DIY or hire a contractor. Neither of those as a quick option nor a cheap one DIY. You can say
Maggie:
Well why else would someone do it?
Rich:
Yeah to make money. Obviously. I’m just saying I don’t think people think it’s gonna happen quickly.
Maggie:
Well in some cases the whole point of the whole point of the name flip is making it quick.
Rich:
I don’t know if I agree that flip is like the cross to me flip is the process of Turning of fixing it. So fixing foot is like the whole onto a profits it and then you the flip is instead of keeping it. You’re you’re fixing it to turn it to somebody else to say
Maggie:
I hear that. I
Rich:
Don’t know that people think that’s a quick process. But all I’m saying
Maggie:
The I think a lot of people who flip houses They want to do it quick because the longer you’re holding on to a property the more you’re paying to heat it the more you’re paying on the taxes the more you’re paying interest on the shark. You just borrowed money from and all those things are adding to your expenses the longer you own the property. So you want to flip a house quickly so that you can one Brooke get a return on your investment and to not be pouring more money into a home that you’re never going to get back.
Rich:
Okay. So yeah as far as like as far as trying to run a business flipping houses, you’re gonna want to do that in the most efficient most cost-effective way because you’re trying to profit and that is that’s if you’re looking at it as a business model and so there’s maybe two different groups of people. And that’s what I was amazing before one is the professional house flipper.
Maggie:
Yeah
Rich:
Who literally has a company built around they probably have you know contractors on retainer who they get estimates from it’s like, all right. Here’s a potential deal. What’s the cost gonna be? What’s the buy call? You know, what’s the cost to buy the property? What’s the fix gonna be? How much can I sell it for and then they’ve just like they’ve they run that calculation basically based on the estimates and my point is like they know what they’re looking for. They’ve got the people the team they need to do it and they’re gonna make it turn around quick if if the price is there so that’s someone who’s like developed the business model of flipping houses. And that’s not someone in my mind who is like just looking at something like, oh, I wonder if I could do this and get rich quick. I don’t think that person hopefully maybe I don’t know are people that naive not calling anybody out. But like maybe there’s something there and that’s Maybe what we’re what you’re like trying to get out. Yes. Is it a naive idea we can say
Maggie:
Thank you romanticize it.
Rich:
Do you say this from experience? Do you know people not to name anyone? But just like have you seen this happen?
Maggie:
Yes. I’ve seen it happen
Rich:
More than one. Entity,
Maggie:
I see it happen because I show houses to clients.
Rich:
Okay
Maggie:
And within 10 seconds within I can look at photos and be like, that’s a flip. and not all buyers want to live in a flip house because oftentimes The Stereotype of a flipped house is that it was done cheaply quickly and poor workmanship.
Rich:
You’re saying that you show Houses that have been flipped
Maggie:
Yup.
Rich:
And the reason they’re for sale is somebody just fixed it to correct it and you’re showing someone and the problem is that you’re seeing telltale signs of oh this there might be stuff to watch out for
Maggie:
Yes,
Rich:
Because he’s potential buyers who are looking to buy a home.
Maggie:
I see it all the time
Rich:
Through a flip.
Maggie:
I see it all the time and I’ll walk through a house and I’ll be like, oh this this is a cheap flip. Or this is a bad flip.
Rich:
Yes.
Maggie:
I don’t see in my experience in my area. Of the Capital District of New York State I don’t see a lot of great flips. I will say I did just close on a house that was flipped and I’ll even shout these guys out because they did an amazing job. It was 518 real estate and the owner broker and was the agent and they did a phenomenal job. They had a great Carpenter. They did a really really great job and I walked through the house and I was like, wow, this is nice and I know that from experience because of my own building my own home. Yeah, and I know how meticulous Brandon is with our stuff and everything we do he takes great amount of pride in the workmanship in our home that he has built with his own two hands and I I know what it is to have pride of ownership. So when I see it in another house it kind of makes me cringe a little bit when like the grout in the tile looks bad or somebody just refinished the floors and the polyurethane is got drips and it’s goopy and the paint has, you know smeared on the ceiling from the walls and it just All those finishing touches that you wanted to have in a home to make it look good just take so many points off of it when you see that
Rich:
Got it. I was just thinking of myself like how how trim work trim trim is
Maggie:
That
Rich:
The you know having done trim one time when we were building our yeah, hobby shop. It’s like I know that. And and just once you’ve done that process like you’re saying even me like we didn’t do a house or anything, but we did a lot of DIY work in building our first coffee shop. renovating our space and you know after that I found myself looking at features of architecture and interior that I never thought about Thought twice about in the past and and you’re right. Now you kind of know like what you can tell when something was professionally done. or yeah, so what degree it was professionally done. So okay. I hear you. I hear you. So cool.
Maggie:
Again. This isn’t me trying to knock on. People’s dreams of flipping houses. I just I I want to it’s more of a cautionary just from what I’ve seen in this market. I think the gone are the days of buying a house for $50,000 and then turning it around and making a hundred thousand dollars in profit. I just don’t think that’s a reality right right now at least.
Rich:
Well Okay, you’re the expert here. Not me. I’m not here to say one way or not about
Maggie:
Unless you have the money. Yeah.
Rich:
Well, yeah,
Maggie:
What kind of the flip models have you been reading about?
Rich:
So
Maggie:
Watching
Rich:
I really have it. This is what’s interesting to me. I’m really like not the kind of person who Follow us through on very much. I have a lot of ideas and I’m always looking out the Dynamics of things just because I’m a curious person and there’s always some part of me that when I click the link below. I’m like, okay, let’s see what’s in this. Let’s see if if it sounds like something I could sink my teeth into and it never is because I recognize right off the rip like this is not a get rich quick thing because that doesn’t exist and I see all the ways that like I have to be committed to this process I need to first of all start off with the initial Financial investment I’m not even talking about flipping hasn’t I’m talking about getting into somebody’s course, right? I can never afford the first investment. But second of all like the process they lay out. I’m always like not quite from me not what I’m into right now and So there’s some saying there’s always some part of me that is curious enough about the process to look into it. But that’s as far as I’ve as I’ve gone with this. I know that house flipping is a thing. I know there’s different levels to which you can perform that work and it’s definitely an unfortunate reality that there’s so many reasons why somebody might cut corners or just not be able to afford something. So I don’t even want to I don’t I don’t know how much to judge that when it happens when you’re walking through a flip with Buyers who you’re like this is this is not it You know, I I can’t say I wonder. Who on the other end of that? was making decisions and why it’s like are they just trying to cover up some? some dirt, or they themselves trying to just make a living out here, you know and and they’re doing what they have to do. I yeah,
Maggie:
You know,
Rich:
Is it is it greed? Or is it? making a
Maggie:
Laziness
Rich:
Is a laziness is it lack of knowledge or skill? I don’t I don’t not really sure what to say about that.
Maggie:
It’s kind of stinks because there are some people out there who Take a lot of pride in workmanship. and want to actually restore houses and make them shine and make them beautiful. and this oversaturated like influence of flipping shows I think has tainted people’s view of What it is to? Work on a house.
Rich:
Yeah, okay. I think the question becomes like who who’s who’s out there to buy the house that I got flipped though, you know some of these that in some cases, here’s like a point. In some cases people are going you’re taking a house that was abandoned. Probably possibly in a lot of these cases. Even in school even here in Scotia. Like I’ve been impressed. I’ve seen I can think of two different houses that were in rough shape one was one had a red x on it, you know one of those Square
Maggie:
Signs and
Rich:
Yeah, and so it was like overgrown whatever and then all of a sudden and I don’t know that I mean looks fine for the outside. So I’m not even speaking to the quality of it. I’m simply saying in a lot of these cases people are taking properties that otherwise are blighted or or unused and just going to continue to be decrepit and then they come and take it over and then Again, not speaking to the quality of the project because I haven’t seen it don’t know but now you’ve got something that is. Maybe So I miss away. Am I asking a question is it like is the question? Is it better to take a worthless property useless property and turn it into something usable? for like less than premium work, you know if you put premium work into something, you know, you got to pay a premium to to buy it for someone to buy and Then his Scotia. And so who’s gonna be able to buy the house? You you all how do you do it? I guess the question. How do you flip a house in an affordable way? For someone to be able to come along and then purchase that house affordably, you know where otherwise if they hadn’t done the work at all. It would still just be sitting there vacant blade it. Yeah you
Maggie:
That a lot of investors ask me in the middle when they walk through a house.
Rich:
Yeah.
Maggie:
You know,
Rich:
I guess you can employ skill and and like You can employ I guess there’s I probably answer my own question. There’s a threshold to everything. You can employ. A skill and use less premium quote unquote. Let’s call Premium products to make something look nice without having to invest as much as you could invest, you know, so there’s maybe it’s maybe it’s a difference of of this
Maggie:
Ability is flipping so volume of houses. What what I do know is if someone is flipping a volume of houses, they will tend to buy a bulk supply of the same tile paint color carpeting. All those things cabinets so that if there’s leftover from the first flip, they’re not wasting materials and they can just use that same tile or that same cabinet or whatever. It is paint color in the next house.
Rich:
Okay. That’s a good point. So that’s the professional flipper who has
Maggie:
Yep,
Rich:
All that stuff there just cancel.
Maggie:
And
Rich:
Has the mindsets like, how can I? Profit off of this in a way that this is gonna be my current, you know my career.
Maggie:
Yeah.
Rich:
So as this this is part of what’s interesting about this topic for me is there’s such a rage of approaches to it and and the reasons behind that, you know, it’s just I could think a lot about that. Yeah. Okay, I’m I found the one post that I said. It literally starts out. Well, first of all this cover photo is The way to make money the way to make money, let’s see. A good question is how do I get started in real estate a better question is how do I make money today? And it goes through all the things that’s not and basically we’re going to say it’s based on my strategy. But this is the kind of advertisement. I’m saying that I see. It’s like it’s it’s real estate adjacent, right?
Maggie:
Yeah,
Rich:
It’s all based on some strategy. that seems a little predatory to me, dude. free training to show you exactly
Maggie:
But it might work. I would love to know
Rich:
So these without any experience without building a team without a license. So it’s just like it’s it’s trying to make this whole real estate investment Thing feel like anyone could do it. And really again remove you from the equation.
Maggie:
Yeah. Remove me as in the real estate agent.
Rich:
That’s right.
Maggie:
Gotcha. and I would honestly love to know if somebody has been able to do that. I don’t know if we have that in our market and in this Upstate, New York area You know. but here’s the thing like this is
Rich:
Not a nobody Rando on on Instagram. This is somebody with a TV show on a major Network.
Maggie:
Let’s perform an experiment. Why don’t you sign up for that course and try it out.
Rich:
It is a free training. Maybe I should. I know I actually had thought about doing that before we recorded this episode I could yeah, cuz I have tons of time I could try that and report back in another. and
Maggie:
Future episode
Rich:
But like this is literally the quintessential I sent you I sent us this ad just to like say this is the quintessential type of thing that I see online and there’s so many of us are seeing it’s not all it’s not it’s not only in real estate all kinds of people look like this with a flashy graphic and video with a free training on crypto or E-commerce or whatever kind of thing. You can buy into to try to make money. This does feel get rich quickie, you know, I definitely give you like. on this particular video but then, you know, I’ve fall actually follow this guy and and I’ve seen the stories you posts and I’ve seen wow, if I had done like 10 seconds of research and just click through I would have seen host of this TV show. Yeah bio. So
Maggie:
For me, I think I’m naturally a skeptic. We kind of touched on this in other episodes when you talk to Newgrounds six. Yeah, seriously we touched on that and so my my knee jerk reaction is always going to be skepticism. I just I’m a natural skeptic So until something has proven to work. for someone then even then I’m still skeptical. But I’m less skeptical. Okay, if that makes
Rich:
Any of you have enrolled in any free strategy courses online that have taken you from Zero to Hero role quick or even over the Long Haul. We’d love Yeah hear about your experience because it’s working for somebody. And maybe that somebody is simply the person selling the courses. But yeah, hey if that’s the if that’s the model because maybe
Maggie:
I’ll tell you what not like these people aside. There’s a whole other World online of selling courses. And making money just on selling courses. So and I’m not knocking that either. I think that that to me that’s kind of a legitimate business because you know, you put the time and effort and energy into these courses and you offer services and information but here’s the thing. Here’s the trick 95% of the people who buy those courses don’t actually follow through on doing the thing that they bought the course about. And I was speaking from experience because I’ve I’ve bought courses online before and taking the courses and not followed through on them. And that’s just
Rich:
Which is so funny. So have I and in one in one’s very specific case. I did that and it’s a legit it wasn’t like. It wasn’t a scheme. It’s me. It’s on me. I just haven’t followed up. But all the resources are there. The content is superb the price was nice and I’m not even talking about the Consulting thing. I just signed up for which that’s actually yet to begin and I’m definitely on board with that and we were going through it. But I’m talking in the past that bought something that was like I need this right now. This is perfect for the business for where we’re at. All again. All the content was there. I just never like sat down with it and did it. Yeah, and that reminds me of a second time. I actually did that.
Maggie:
I know
Rich:
Exactly on not even for the business for something
Maggie:
Like my theory
Rich:
Funny
Maggie:
My theory is that The people who are selling these house flipping courses. Make they they want to they probably have amazing content on how to flip houses. But my guess would be they’re making a lot more money selling these courses than they are actually flipping houses.
Rich:
Well
Maggie:
That’s my hot take
Rich:
That’s you might not be wrong. but if they’re doing both well Then I don’t know they could be doing both. Well, they’re obviously. They have a good advertising budget because I see a lot of these heads.
Maggie:
Yeah.
Rich:
So and who knows they’re often involved in other things too. It’s it’s it it’s often. They’re Fame that also lends them the ability.
Maggie:
To present course material like trust in something else. So like people have people have success selling courses and things online is because they probably offered something for free at first and then at the end of their free course that they showed a lot of value for at the end of it. They’re like if you want even more information and like the secret equation, By my course and because you’re on this course, I’m going to give you a discount and you’re not going to pay full price.
Rich:
Yeah,
Maggie:
And but it’s only going to be to you people because you’re on this course right now and it’s gonna expire at the end of and they put out the sense of urgency because it’s like, oh, you’re only gonna get this price for the next 30 minutes and then it expires and then they just do a really good job of pinging you your email or whatever and and saying last chance and then you this urgency is is what people Like, oh, I’m not gonna be able to get it and then they they pay for it and they don’t follow through on it.
Rich:
Okay, this is so interesting that you’re saying that because
Maggie:
Did that happen to you
Rich:
All that has happened to me. Not that I’ve gone. through the not that I’ve gone and purchased a bunch of stuff, but that whole process you you basically what they’re doing is they’re they’re selling you their free course for your your trading your email. You’re Trading Card correct contact information,
Maggie:
Correct
Rich:
For access to the The and it’s
Maggie:
The day provided something that was a value of you for you to give them your email because if they didn’t have any sort of value like right now our email is kind of a commodity like we’re not gonna give somebody our email unless we really think that that person we’re giving our email to has value.
Rich:
That’s yeah, I agree with that.
Maggie:
So like what I’m saying is that person who was offering this course, they were offering something good. I’m not I’m not knocking them especially like these house flipping people and like the courses that you took that I took like there was some value in that. Yeah, which is why we offered our email and why we took the the free seminar
Rich:
So first, okay. All right. I want to back pedal. I want to backtrack a sec. and simply say like it may sound like we’re knocking this business model. We’ve kind of moved from house flipping as a business model we can we can swing back out of that because you know, you will have some I think you do have some particular perspective there, but What I’m saying is the whole selling online courses selling stuff online having this passive income you do the workout front and then it’s just out there in the world driving income. That’s a business model and it’s smart who are weird. We’re not actually here to say anything against that
Maggie:
It’s
Rich:
Not maybe it sounds like we are and and we’re not I recognize that as like that’s a legitimate business
Maggie:
Agreed
Rich:
Model as long as you’re paying taxes and like, you know, you you have expenses and you have income and you have profit and you can make that work and that can very well be a way that someone is diversifying their income. So nothing actually against that model. We’re just talking as the you know user as the end users. We’re as the ones who have been marketed too by these people. That’s kind of what we’re saying. We’re not saying this is a business model. That’s better than another or worse than another we’re just coming a little bit from our experience as any one of you who have Gotten these ads and been sucked into that funnel and followed it down a couple a couple
Maggie:
And we’re here outside House Coffee has a course at the end of this podcast.
Rich:
Absolutely not but stay tuned. All right. That’s that’s a good
Maggie:
Sorry. I didn’t mean to decide track. I just like he’s an opportunity.
Rich:
But okay, so I’m just trying to say shout out to the entrepreneurial types who are out here. Hustling on the online marketing funnel grind because I don’t think that’s for me but I respect it. All right. So if you’re out here doing that just make good content. Okay, it’s all ask. Yeah, it’s it’s legit, you know. So anyway, that’s all I’m just putting a caveat on that like we’re not against any of that and we’re not against house flipping and we’re not against. People do it using their credentials to monetize their credentials. Okay, not against that that is very much exactly what we are here. It’s a champion. We are just not super fans of get rich quick. schemes slash people who present get things as get rich quick opportunities when the reality that we know as entrepreneurs typically is it’s
Maggie:
Not it’s not that I and we kind of established this in our previous episode where there’s no such thing as a quick buck.
Rich:
Yeah, right. Let me let me think. Yes. I’ve never made a quick buck. Personally,
Maggie:
Yeah
Rich:
Personally.
Maggie:
And if you have
Rich:
I don’t think I mean how at this point.
Maggie:
Yeah what
Rich:
You know what I said, I don’t think I’ve made a slow but I will say I have my first check from story in my back pocket right now.
Maggie:
What and how many years
Rich:
Five?
Maggie:
French
Rich:
Just for a hundred bucks.
Maggie:
Can we pause and just quickly like talk about that really silence a moment.
Rich:
That’s awesome. Thanks.
Maggie:
You paid yourself.
Rich:
Can I say just
Maggie:
Wow
Rich:
You had to happen eventually
Maggie:
It took so that was what $20 per year for the last five years. Um you too can make twenty dollars a year. You open a coffee shop
Rich:
Back pay. Wow. Yeah good perspective. And that’s not even I have that’s not even taxed yet. I still figure out the self employment attack and so it’s about 12 14% I don’t know. I’ll ask back guys. She did it. All right talking about that. So yeah, I get made about 85 bucks. Net five years of work. Shout out to me.
Maggie:
Only took five years.
Rich:
Shout out to not having a business plan.
Maggie:
Yeah, I mean, those are I feel like very important lessons and I’m glad that you brought that up because it really kind of touches on a lot of what we talked about in our last episode Full Circle and talking about You know going on that topic continuing in that conversation a little bit today. And I agree with everything. You just said about not knocking those business plans. Frankly I
Rich:
Could do it probably would
Maggie:
Well I told you this when we were in our planning conversation. Before this episode maybe it was like a week ago. that the one of the reasons I got my real estate license was to flip houses.
Rich:
You did say that
Maggie:
And the other reason was I was working for a builder and I thought that I would sell new construction so I kind of had like Two motivations for getting my license and I’m not doing either of those. But I definitely considered it for. A long time.
Rich:
So that’s funny because we heard the story of how you got of the the path that led you to get your real estate license. Yeah, I was you know, somewhat practical but we didn’t hear a lick about what you just said, which was after you started renovating your own home. You thought I could get my real estate license. Yep, and and flip houses. Yeah. You’re dirty little star.
Maggie:
So I mean and the reason I’m sharing that is because I don’t want there to be shame for I’m not trying to shame people who want to flip houses. That’s not my point because obviously I had that same
Rich:
Because you thought you might do it,
Maggie:
You know,
Rich:
You could do it you just I could not do for correct. You have different route with the same on the same path, correct?
Maggie:
Yeah.
Rich:
Interesting um
Maggie:
And I’ve discovered that throughout the process of renovating my own home. and maybe oh way harder than it looks way harder and also, It always takes longer than you think and we we also much money twice as much three like way much weight more than twice as much money.
Rich:
You heard here first
Maggie:
And especially if you’re living through the construction, so I don’t think our listeners who are interested in flipping houses plan on living through their flip like living in the home that they are flipping. Like Brandon and I did and we’re not really flipping our house. We were just got we just gutted it and rebuilt it and now we’re putting an addition on to it and It’s hard. I think that’s what that’s really what turned me off to. The idea of flipping so maybe if we weren’t living in the flip and doing our full-time jobs and working on the house every other moment of our life. I probably wouldn’t have this perspective. So I’m like a little bit jaded. but at the end of the day, I still if somebody if there was an opportunity out there. I would consider it for sure.
Rich:
Cool for sure. Yeah opportunities
Maggie:
Why you’re selling a course?
Rich:
No, just yeah, we’re gonna flip some houses. How’s coffee Ventures
Maggie:
Three actually
Rich:
Real estate investment firm,
Maggie:
Right?
Rich:
And that’s so funny. Okay. Sorry. I have to know this so you were. You you were on a track that led you to get your real estate license. Was the timing just right where because you said you saw commission checks. Yeah. You were like, I’m in the wrong. I’m doing it wrong.
Maggie:
Yep.
Rich:
And then you said from there that you decided to get your real estate license, but was you were you also in the process of starting the renovation on your home? Like right around that time. Did it just sink up
Maggie:
The timing of it? It was a perfect storm. It was so a Brandon and I Found our house. It was the it was the most random thing. We weren’t even looking. For houses at the time. We really weren’t it was 2014. And we went to Jump and Jack’s to get ice cream. And as we do in the summertime
Rich:
As one does in this this
Maggie:
Area and we’re like, let’s go for a drive and let’s just go for a walk and eat our ice cream and we we saw a house on Zillow that like was way over our price range and he was like, oh, I think we’re in that neighborhood with that house that we liked. Like let’s walk by it and we parked our car and we were walking. Along the road and we saw for sale sign in front of this house and we’re like, it’s interesting. We didn’t see this house when we were looking on Zillow. and It wasn’t even on our radar. And we called up our realtor. I didn’t have my license. So we you know, I had to go through it like we had to go we had to buy our house away. Everybody else buys houses. We had to call our realtor and say hey, can we see this house? And he’s like, no, it’s pending. There’s another buyer who’s buying it right now. It’s it’s sold and we’re like dang. It’s a really cool house. It’s like cute little bungalow on the river. And all weekend, we couldn’t shake it. We were just like this house is like pulling us in and we like we were just obsessing over it. And so we called our realtor back and said could you please find out more information? Like it looks like it’s been pending for a long time and we’re really interested in it. And so he found out from the listing agent that the buyers who were buying the house were having difficulty securing their financing and we swooped in and made an offer and and mind you. This is 2014 and in 2014. To make an offer on a house. That was the list price of a house was basically overpaying you know like you you always underbid you always always underbid on houses and we were like you get we’re gonna pay the list price and I’m like, oh my God, we can’t do that that’s overpaying and he’s like no and so we did and we got it. And
Rich:
And
Maggie:
I think well what we didn’t get it right away. We had to wait for The other buyers mortgage contingency to expire and because they couldn’t they couldn’t secure their financing. So then we basically were a backup offer and then they accepted our offer. And so we closed on the house in September of 2014. And right around that time. Was when maybe a few months later so actually because I didn’t get my license until May of 2015. So between September 2014 and May of 2015 is when I stumbled across this check in the back office. It was like near the copy machine and I was like, oh my God that that’s a lot of money and And it was it was a real estate commission check and I’m like, I’m in the wrong side of this business. and it was also the time where we were ripping down walls and like making we had these Big Dreams and these big plans of making our house this like complete transformation. So that is when I said to Brandon and I was like we could flip houses like we’re doing all this work ourselves and I could get my real estate license and you could do like the planning and the work and and we can we can make this. A thing and so and then in the meantime if I’m working for this Builder, I could sell new construction houses because I have this knowledge of building houses and I’m we’re building our own house. It just made sense. So that’s why I got my license. It was the kind of a perfect storm of those two things. And I just quickly realized as we started getting deeper and deeper into the construction and spending more money and more time and covering more issues because there’s always the flip house. There’s always going to be something you don’t know about when you buy it and you’re gonna discover a major issue that’s going to cost 10 times the amount of money and take 10 times the amount of time that you initially thought. I guarantee it like that just always happens in an old home. There’s always unknowns and you have to prepare for that and we were not prepared for that at all and That’s when I was decided like oh so throughout that time. I kind of Hit the pause button on buying like doing a flip business because we were still so knee deep into our own Edition. But wow that happened my real estate business started to grow and I started showing houses and listing houses and then I just became like every year in the business. I got busier and busier and busier and then I started staging and then, you know, then that whole thing and so my business evolved quite a bit from when I first started But the one of The Inspirations of it was house flipping. Yeah.
Rich:
So I know I thought of a new podcast we can start.
Maggie:
Okay
Rich:
Side one under our new podcast Network that we’re also going to start called House flip House of flip Horrors. Every episode will just be a different story of somebody flipping a house and then the horror that they uncovered along love because you’re so right. Just knowing what I know.
Maggie:
Yeah. I also want to like play with the pun get rich quick.
Rich:
Because
Maggie:
Because it’s your name,
Rich:
Yeah, gosh,
Maggie:
But I haven’t thought of a good pun yet.
Rich:
So,
Maggie:
How’s the flip horse?
Rich:
There’s a little alright, there’s a little a little behind the scenes on your life. Well more than we’ve been getting more than we’ve already gotten up till now. That’s cool. And you know what also shout out to the way that sometimes we have an idea. That is an inspiring thought. That we start to pursue and then we realize that’s even if it’s not a maybe it’s a dead end or maybe it’s just like not now, but it leads you to something else that becomes, you know. a better option Isn’t that just so much? Yeah, entrepreneurial mind. Totally. I’m just always throwing ideas out there and then just seeing what sticks you know, I literally text Abby and Christy like every few days with a new idea and the reactions are always Priceless.
Maggie:
This is a huge side note tangent. We don’t have to get into it today. Maybe another time. Have you heard of the artist’s way?
Rich:
Think so. Okay only if I’ve heard of it from you before and I still don’t
Maggie:
It. It’s something that maybe we could talk about in like a book report or We can talk about it in the future sometime, but it’s something that I think you would really really get a lot of value from and it’s very writing heavy where you like write every day. But you go through this book. There’s 12 chapters of this book and it’s you it’s supposedly should take you 12 weeks. I think and you go through the chapters and it’s it’s a Therapy book as what I would describe it as and you you learn a lot and I think it’s great for Creative people like us and it’s also like Unleashing like your inner artist and you’re on inner creative self if if you’re somebody and not just you like anyone listening like if there’s a if there’s a side of you that you’ve sort of been censoring creatively this book will help you unleash that.
Rich:
Cool. Sounds like a good thing. Did you do that recently or just I
Maggie:
Did it during covid. Yeah
Rich:
Artist way about that or not. But
Maggie:
Yeah, I might have
Rich:
Sweet. Well story book club story book club. Yeah House Coffee
Maggie:
House Coffee
Rich:
Book club. We have a story book club. thing that’s just in my head.
Maggie:
Yeah
Rich:
House Coffee.
Maggie:
Yeah
Rich:
Book club coming for you. Is there something it sounds like largely a workbook type?
Maggie:
Yes
Rich:
Process
Maggie:
It is it more. It’s very interactive. Very workbookie.
Rich:
Yeah, but
Maggie:
Highly highly highly recommended.
Rich:
Okay. All right. You heard here first?
Maggie:
Yeah,
Rich:
Let’s see. Well, you know that’s sort of covered a lot of like house flipping adjacent. Thanks, like how it’s you know can be an entrepreneurial thing. We didn’t really get into like nitty gritty and I don’t know that I needed to go there. I just I’m trying to highlight. That like the reality. I just find it intriguing that’s all I was trying to do is just like dig into this like why am I so intrigued by? The idea is that people have that come my way that I’m always like clickbait. I’m totally you know gonna click it but that’s never gonna lead me anywhere, but I still just got to click it and see what happens. So why why am I like that? And then
Maggie:
You’re not the only one. Well,
Rich:
Yeah, I don’t know. So that’s what I’m trying to dig into like, why is it so appealing to us? What’s the drive behind that? I think it comes from this. I don’t know that’s actually a real deep dive, but some of what we’re talking about last time of we all want more freedom in life, you know, that’s another buzzword Financial Freedom. I didn’t even talk about network marketing and direct, you know, direct sales. I didn’t even talk about that last time which is another way that people get sort of hooked.
Maggie:
You talking like essential oils?
Rich:
I’m not even talking essential oils, but I do think that ends up being one of the business models that people follow. Well one of the one of the specific ways people follow out this direct sales business model. I got a hot take for you. And it’s that my hot take is that I am not inherently against network marketing.
Maggie:
I know you’ve said that before
Rich:
Mlms. Did you know what she don’t knock it till you try it? Okay. Now I’m not saying you should try it. Probably. Don’t try it because it’s not here’s the thing. It’s not get rich quick. It’s a five-year game minimum the way to make this thing work in theory. I think it’s I think theoretically It’s okay. Okay, not necessarily mlms. They’re not. You gotta it’s an equation. Everything is an equation and you got to have the right balance of the variables in a successful MLM career, but and maybe MLM isn’t even the right way to talk about it. That’s why I say direct sales or network marketing. I think those are Maybe. They’re used better changeably are but MLM comes with baggage and the other ones are more accurate and help you move away from
Maggie:
You describe the difference real quick and like one sentence
Rich:
Multi-level marketing MLM. Is is the kind of stuff where? You know, it’s it’s often described or thought of or jokingly described as like pyramid scheme. Yeah, which is illegal, but MLM not technically illegal. It’s where you get people to join the business is where you make money one by selling products, but better yet by by recruiting other people to sell products.
Maggie:
And then what would you say network marketing is
Rich:
It’s it’s that model. but No, it’s more or less. We call it direct sales or network marketing because the whole here’s the concept you have a product. I think so much of the problem with mlms and direct marketing and stuff is is the product itself the products are usually pretty lean but as a as a model basically would this is what I talk about it in theory in theory. It works. It works potentially have a good product super well because if you have a product then which you can do is you can incentivize individuals to become the best representatives of that product and they themselves become the marketers for that product. And so you can rather than invest money in. in rather than invest overly invest in traditional marketing you can invest in people and create opportunities for people to work and Market your products. and so it just becomes a different model that can definitely fail people and I think probably in the majority of cases or just tell people. Yeah, and so when I say I’m not inherently
Maggie:
My my people in my family have fallen victims to these network marketing
Rich:
All no people who
Maggie:
Yeah who
Rich:
Have either directly by them. Try it out didn’t work and that’s what I’m getting at. I think that most of the time people are set up for They’re not set up for success in this model. Because of either the product is lame or it’s oversaturated as a particular line of products or they’re they’re sold the wrong idea because the person who recruited them or the company itself didn’t resource people well to sell the products or some other weird tactic that’s employed that just kind of messes it all up. But I think when you look at it holistically and you look at it for what it is and you say all right. I’m not gonna look at the baggage and I’m not gonna look at it through the lens of any particular experience. I’ve had or any particular company I know about I’m just gonna look at the model. As a business model, it’s intriguing. That’s all I’m saying. So I’m not inherently opposed. I just think you need to. Examine it from the right. Like the right angle and know what you’re getting into and find products that you resonate with that you think other people resonate with and I’m here just I from what I can tell there’s no great. There’s an honestly not a lot of good. There’s not like that much that I wouldn’t want to get connected with and try to direct Market, you know. Um,
Maggie:
You’re gonna start a coffee network marketing business.
Rich:
Now we’re talking. So I would actually like to I would like to talk to you about my experience not right now. Maybe next time maybe another time, but I met somebody I got recruited. I got recruited to well. Okay. No, no, I got corded. I wasn’t recruited because I basically have to know in the end, but I got courted by somebody literally face to face in a store. I was in the Apple Store. And I got I talked to somebody just who was a regular person in there
Maggie:
Apple employee.
Rich:
I was there for computer thing. They were there for some device thing and They did their thing. They were like friendly outgoing they struck up a conversation. You know, it’s like it’s almost like a little bit of Evangelistic kind of thing like, oh this is you know, really gotta go out go away. But that makes sense. And that’s probably why resonates today
Maggie:
Like the conversation with do, you know Jesus Christ as your lord and savior,
Rich:
They did not in fact, in fact, there was no element of spirituality. I was the one later on to actually
Maggie:
You reverse
Rich:
Bring up some spirituality in the comment in the course of conversation, but that was You know, which was fine. Yeah.
Maggie:
So they could they were courting you.
Rich:
They just very Christian worry. Okay. Okay interesting turn. Okay. so they Were that’s a legit word. That’s I know. I like culture back back in the day, but hopefully we’re done using that word. That’s just gonna be a whole
Maggie:
Spinoff
Rich:
Podcast that we’re gonna do as well
Maggie:
Very culture rip. So no not rip. No. No, they just
Rich:
Rip to ourselves.
Maggie:
Yeah. Yes
Rich:
And some perspectives. Okay. Okay. So here’s all
Maggie:
You’re being quoted in the eye by somebody’s business.
Rich:
I felt like this guy was reading a script. I felt like I was watching a live Instagram ad. I was like, did you just walk out of my Instagram? profile like
Maggie:
So it sounded two salesy
Rich:
It was Not it didn’t sound salesy, but it felt rehearsed somewhat rehearsed and I was like Wow, here’s a real live human being saying the same things to me. He’s basically telling me to cling to click the link and I was like, oh my gosh, I can click the link in real with a person did so, um, just yeah connect again, and I got his number and like I met with him twice two different times went out for Went to
Maggie:
That is the difference between you and
Rich:
Two different places because I’m curious dude. I wanted to fall out through it. I did down right away.
Maggie:
See
Rich:
You have that’s because of your pre-operative Notions about like no if you’re a lot of it appreciate business and experience that you’ve had. Yes. I wanted to follow through and see where we were gonna go because I discovered some interesting things in the process. But what was what I was motion to discover was that I wasn’t against this I just realized because I had the time because I followed it through I was thoughtful about it. I gathered the information and and he and I learned the company behind it all. which not against the company either Going through the discovery process. He gave me a book to read he said. I don’t remember if he told me to read the book before we met again, but I did I read it in a week and honestly. great business book and it was about direct sales and it helps to paint the picture of like this is not get rich quick. You must be a specific kind of person who is able to be self-starting and self-motivated and follow through and you you know it you’re gonna get out what you put in. It was very clear what I was getting potentially getting myself into I’m not saying that opportunity happens for everybody and the way that this guy frames it and this company tends to frame this whole thing is like look, we’re not even to tell you now. Here’s here’s a was it was interesting and this was a little off-putting. They’re all We’re not gonna tell you the company. We’re not going to tell you even the business model until you come meet they call it the vetting process. All right. Now, I know a lot of people my eyes should people are like in red flags are like no
Maggie:
Dude. My eyeballs are in the back of my head FYI.
Rich:
But I’m not a skeptic. I’m a number nine. So I’m all I’m all let’s see what’s going on.
Maggie:
You’re a piecemaker.
Rich:
Let’s let’s see what’s going on so I can speak informative informed so I can speak about nothing now speak well, but so I can speak in an informed fashion about this particular thing and know what’s out there because I prefer to live my life knowing my options. So I went through two meetings. Saw the business model. Learned the saw the company saw some of the products. read the book and I got to the end of it and I realized by the way, I didn’t know I was going to say I didn’t think I was gonna say all that but that’s pretty much all I have to say about it.
Maggie:
Yeah, I
Rich:
Got to the end of it and I realized like okay. This is a viable business model. It’s legit enough. It makes sense. It can potentially work for the right person and that’s not me. I’m not the right person for this at least not in this place in my life. But you know, the whole selling point is like Financial Freedom you can do this and you can build this this team and you can do it long term and there’s always incentives and you can make it work, but
Maggie:
I give you credit for the
Rich:
Five, but the book is literally like listen, give it five years. nothing So I had two takeaways from that one. That’s not me. I don’t know five years to commit to this two. Anything good in life is gonna take you five years. Anything successful like
Maggie:
You got your first check today after five years.
Rich:
It’s gonna take five. I was like checks out no fun inside it I but as I was reading that book and this was back in February or March
Maggie:
Of this year? Yeah 2020 happened.
Rich:
Maybe April it might have been April there. It was still snowy. It was definitely still snowy, which we’re in Upstate New York, that could have been last week for that matter. Yeah. It’s May 23rd, by the way. not to date not the day our podcast and so I went through it recently. And I came out of it saying I’m not apparently posted this. I have respect for those willing to grind this out. I do think it works for somebody. And if maybe a few somebody’s I think most people are getting the wrong idea about it. I am opposed to a lot of certain companies. But I think if you can be thoughtful about it and squeeze and the other thing is it’s meant to be flexible. Like you can still maintain your full-time job or whatever you want to do and it can be a
Maggie:
Quick side Hustle
Rich:
But
Maggie:
Side Hustle, but I don’t think
Rich:
But if you want to make it a thing like five years. 40 hours a week. I mean we’re talking full-time job. We’re talking you’ve got to make it what it’s gonna be. So I learned that I the vetting process which was designed to not just suck me in. I had to push past. Okay guys being secretive. He won’t tell me anything called. He won’t tell me. He’s you know, he had his lines but he wasn’t telling me like too much he was willing to get on the phone with me and be a little bit real like I feel like I could be real enough and be like listen, I value transparency. I value quality I value people and I was like if I’m not willing to work with people who don’t share my values. I was pretty upfront with him on the phone almost content to the point of contentious and he took that you know, and then like still wanted to Was willing to sit down. So at that point I I was he wouldn’t give me enough to where I couldn’t make a decision like okay. This is definitely not for me, but I was willing like I said to to follow through
Maggie:
And I
Rich:
Don’t know how made no. So okay that might have been this guy. It might have been his mentors and and their team in the way they do it. It might have been the company in the way. They say you should do things. That’s a specific framework possibly within this direct sales thing that might be different from some other company that’s out here trying to just like Court the housewives of the world. I don’t know for the the like stay at home moms and the people who want a side hustle. That’s maybe a different thing. Maybe that’s more predatory. It’s still under that umbrella. So maybe it all gets a bad rap, but So I’m just trying to see what I’m saying. Yeah, I’m saying there’s a to me. There’s a difference I’m saying there’s there’s good examples and bad examples of this thing. Um, I think that you can maybe easily get caught up in the bad ones because they’re a little more ubiquitous and it takes more time to dig into what’s going on with the whole thing and see how potentially good it is. Maybe I’m also like I know how to be a little bit critical for as open-minded quote unquote as I am. I know how to do my own vetting and realize like I told him I was like, you know what I’m kind of self vetting actually so I’m gonna see through what you’re saying and not saying because I know how to do that and I’m gonna know from and I’m kind of self-aware at this point in my life to know like what I’m capable of and not and so I was I had the luxury of kind of going through that property is like that. Yeah, that’s kind of what I’m saying is I had the time to give the it was set up in a way to where I wasn’t I could I could gather all the information I needed to make an informed decision and not get sold something. As like a cool idea that I wasn’t gonna be able to actually make work and I don’t know if that always happens and maybe that’s the problem with some of these. MLM type things is yeah, I could just it’s presented in the wrong ways. There’s not enough transparency about it.
Maggie:
Yeah,
Rich:
Or people just yeah. Yeah, if there’s not enough transparency, then you have to be you have to choose to do the digging and that’s kind of what I did. Yeah.
Maggie:
Wow. So
Rich:
Anyway, that’s my experience getting corded by
Maggie:
That. I don’t turn
Rich:
But it’s you know what it’s all about side hustles. Okay, how about diversify our income? And that’s why I went at the end of the day. I was like, hey, you know, he’s talking about e-commerce. He literally framed it like like e-commerce like I was thinking. Oh, okay. Maybe I set up an Amazon store. That’s that’s a model that seems to be out there. And so I was like, is that what we’re talking about? Because he did say he used the word Ecommerce up from so I had this whole idea and then it turns out it’s you know, some other direct sales thing and I’m like, okay different. It does have a e-commerce, um component but not quite what I thought at first. But my point is because I was at a place in my life where I’m like I need some passive or just I need another source of income. So I was open to exploring things. And then this like came on just the timing was right where I was like, okay, let me see what it’s all about because I’m out of interesting stage in my life where I’m reorganizing everything business related. So,
Maggie:
Yeah.
Rich:
So that’s where that hit me and why I was intriguing is really because of this whole concept of we can’t have just one rarely. Can we have just one source of income you know,
Maggie:
Right? Wow,
Rich:
Got them hot
Maggie:
Take
Rich:
Yeah.
Maggie:
I think that’s that’s
Rich:
Our episode. That’s
Maggie:
A good way to end it. We’d love to know bonus round at I. We’d love to know dear audience what you think please send us your feedback. In the form of a review or the form of a DM on our Instagram House Coffee podcast, or you could leave feedback on our website. We have a speak pipe House Coffee podcast.com or House Coffee podcast at gmail.com. If you want to send us an email the old-fashioned way,
Rich:
So true. Have we got an emails?
Maggie:
No,
Rich:
No
Maggie:
One’s email us yet.
Rich:
Becca. Left us a voice
Maggie:
Becca left us to speak pipe and we should play it at some point.
Rich:
Oh so true.
Maggie:
It’s it’s so good. We love it when people give us their feedback and even more when they leave us five
Rich:
Stars. Yeah. Okay. I think we said we’re working at tease episodes. But I’ve we’re pretty pretty I think we’re bringing TJ in next time.
Maggie:
Yep.
Rich:
We’re gonna do
Maggie:
Hopefully TJ who is our producer? Yeah
Rich:
Who
Maggie:
Mixes this podcast Haley listening to it as he’s editing it. We’re calling you out TJ. Come on our podcast next week.
Rich:
We got we got some good things to talk about with him. So, alright y’all peace
Maggie:
Later.